POTUS Trump Thread

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

Postby scurrydog » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:17 pm

I usually use a personal example. Like, I wouldn’t have been able to finish my undergraduate degree at UT if Obama hadn’t raised the size of the pell grants.
The fact I now have a masters degree and some legitimate personal success is in large part directly related to Obama.

Also, 2 less personal examples is the fact that they even had any amount of money after the bush economy cratered can be directly attributed to Obama.
Oh, plus they probably know somebody who is still alive because of Obamacare.
somewhere there's a fake me out there.
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Postby mooncalf » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:46 pm

comet wrote:Just spent 20 minutes trying to explain what fake news really means to a Trump coworker, and also expressed to him that I think we could afford to be taxed a lot more heavily to pay for social programs. He got pretty mad. His retort was that he voted for Obama twice and Obama did nothing for our country.


for the non-politically savvy, even those sympathetic towards progressive aims, raising taxes for a more robust social safety net is anathema. we just need to reduce waste or end the drug war or whatever and then there will be plenty of money to fund social programs. source: my fb contacts (in the bay area)

given this, progressive messaging either needs to be dishonest or needs to educate people that taxation isn't an inherently bad thing. the former might be easier but i think it's necessary to get people to come around on the latter.
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:51 pm

i feel like people need to understand that they're losing more from shitty pay than from taxing, but it's a bit more abstract that way and harder to convince people of ime
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Postby easy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:52 pm

the thing about taxes is, the finger thing means them.
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Postby farmer » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:53 pm

i think it would really help if we would stop treating taxes like a separate expense from everything else that builds your life. people freak out about the prospect of the cost of m4a because they think "oh my taxes will go up!" and not "oh my taxes+healthexpenses will go down!"

groceries are part of your food fees.
rent is part of your shelter fees.
lease payments is part of your transportation fees.
taxes are part of your food, shelter, transportation, safety, and many, many other fees.

taxes aren't levied by some king for his gilded palace; they are as integral to your life working the way it does as any of your other expenses.
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Postby jewels » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:58 pm

I don’t know that pell grants to artist are going to convince anyone who needs convincing
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:16 pm

you don't need to convince people that their taxes should be higher, just that people richer than they are should have taxes that are higher
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Postby mcwop23 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:21 pm

palmer eldritch wrote:you don't need to convince people that their taxes should be higher, just that people richer than they are should have taxes that are higher



yeah but people still think they’ll be rich as well one day so they won’t agree to it
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Postby fester » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:21 pm

palmer eldritch wrote:you don't need to convince people that their taxes should be higher, just that people richer than they are should have taxes that are higher


blah blah job creators blah!
------------
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Postby mooncalf » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:25 pm

well-off people need to pay way more in taxes but pretty sure the middle class needs to see tax increases too to see the kind of social safety net that most of us would prefer.
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Postby Mesh » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:35 pm

Guys: people just consider taxes theft. Because they are simpletons.
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Postby Barthes Starr » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:38 pm

mooncalf wrote:well-off people need to pay way more in taxes but pretty sure the middle class needs to see tax increases too to see the kind of social safety net that most of us would prefer.


you misspelled corporations i think
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Postby Mesh » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:41 pm

Holding the base-level notion that taxes = theft fits in nicely with a worldview that includes the fantasy of, on some not-so-far-off day, firing a weapon at agents of the same government that stole all that money from you.
...brewed into the common yeast of the waves.
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:47 pm

you don't really need increases on middle class wages. except in the case of a single payer health care system, in which case I wouldn't sell it as "we need a tax increase" but "a tax that will replace the cost of health insurance"
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:49 pm

the lower-to-true middle class could use some more tax credits really
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Postby DasLofGang » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:49 pm

Mesh wrote:Holding the base-level notion that taxes = theft fits in nicely with a worldview that includes the fantasy of, on some not-so-far-off day, firing a weapon at agents of the same government that stole all that money from you.

and yet: gotta s'pport the troops/cops/ice/etc
heaven’s full of murderers
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Postby deadbass » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:04 pm

if America had a better social safety net, Luigi would still be alive
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Postby Julius Sumner Miller » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:10 pm

Mesh wrote:Guys: people just consider taxes theft. Because they are simpletons.


No they don't, and no they aren't. Maybe your Fox News watching uncle is, but most in poll after poll Americans favor increasing taxes on the rich and on corporations.
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Postby DasLofGang » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:10 pm

he's like al capone ya know? another paisan cut down before his time
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Postby Klint » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:11 pm

Julius Sumner Miller wrote:
Mesh wrote:Guys: people just consider taxes theft. Because they are simpletons.


No they don't, and no they aren't. Maybe your Fox News watching uncle is, but most in poll after poll Americans favor increasing taxes on the rich and on corporations.

yeah we need to elect more candidates that aren't beholden to the interests of corporations and wealth hoarders.
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Postby galactagogue » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:17 pm

important dentist wrote:
light rail coyote wrote:i'm late to this/don't know what the overall discussion ITT was like but as someone who has worked with a ton of elected officials AOC's minor policy confusions are nothing compared to some of the shit that i've seen/lots of elected officials that seem very qualified on paper are gigantic dumbasses.

yeah basically the only reason anything gets done is expertise at the staff level. most politicians have a good (or at least a working) grasp of broad policy issues and plenty have a somewhat deeper understanding of issues related to their non-politician job or a pet issue, but basically all of the nuts and bolts comes from behind the scenes


This. The way people can contort the privilege of having a staff into an question of a single persons qualifications makes me rage. Literally no one does this successfully without support.
...ive said too much
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Postby galactagogue » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:19 pm

mcwop23 wrote:
palmer eldritch wrote:you don't need to convince people that their taxes should be higher, just that people richer than they are should have taxes that are higher



yeah but people still think they’ll be rich as well one day so they won’t agree to it



do people really believe this tho? i can never wrap my head around this retort as someone who is convinced that status quo dictates that i will never even own a home, much less find a steady job with benefits.
...ive said too much
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Postby jewels » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:39 pm

Mesh wrote:Holding the base-level notion that taxes = theft fits in nicely with a worldview that includes the fantasy of, on some not-so-far-off day, firing a weapon at agents of the same government that stole all that money from you.



and they also think I'VE WORKED HARD AND NEVER TAKEN A DIME FROM THE GOVERNMENT.
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Postby john plainman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:46 pm

my mom called me a liar when i said i'd be fine with getting taxed out the wazoo if i was millionaire.
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Postby john plainman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:47 pm

she was three or four brain worms away from retorting "so why dont you start mailing half of your paycheck back to the government"
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Postby walt whitman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:49 pm

galactagogue wrote:
mcwop23 wrote:
palmer eldritch wrote:you don't need to convince people that their taxes should be higher, just that people richer than they are should have taxes that are higher



yeah but people still think they’ll be rich as well one day so they won’t agree to it



do people really believe this tho? i can never wrap my head around this retort as someone who is convinced that status quo dictates that i will never even own a home, much less find a steady job with benefits.

Just a guess but it probably also has to do with an irrational zero-sum attitude that uplifting others (black and brown folks) makes white people worse off
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Postby Weasel » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:52 pm

Barthes Starr wrote:
mooncalf wrote:well-off people need to pay way more in taxes but pretty sure the middle class needs to see tax increases too to see the kind of social safety net that most of us would prefer.


you misspelled corporations i think


Yeahhhhh when companies like Amazon are claiming losses and paying actual zero corporate taxes, I gotta say I'd like to see them pony up first. Then maybe we can start trying to convince the masses that taxes are some good shit.
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Postby jewels » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:02 pm

Weasel wrote:
Barthes Starr wrote:
mooncalf wrote:well-off people need to pay way more in taxes but pretty sure the middle class needs to see tax increases too to see the kind of social safety net that most of us would prefer.


you misspelled corporations i think


Yeahhhhh when companies like Amazon are claiming losses and paying actual zero corporate taxes, I gotta say I'd like to see them pony up first. Then maybe we can start trying to convince the masses that taxes are some good shit.


can someone explain (and dumb down as much as you want without fear of making me feel bad) how a company can claim losses while the CEO becomes one of the richest people on earth?
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Postby Hal Jordan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:09 pm

CEO pay is an operating cost and they sign secure contracts before coming on board, often with compensation tied to stock upturns and never tied to downturns and always with golden parachutes
well that was intense
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Postby Hal Jordan » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:11 pm

Bezos and zuckerberg wealth is tied to stock prices
well that was intense
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