Finally Watching [Nostalgia Movies]

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Postby Spoilt Victorian Child » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:31 am

I appreciate the line about how Buffalo Bill isn't actually a transsexual but couldn't they also have included one about how he's not actually a fan of the Fall?
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Postby futurist » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:41 am

Spoilt Victorian Child wrote:I appreciate the line about how Buffalo Bill isn't actually a transsexual but couldn't they also have included one about how he's not actually a fan of the Fall?


:lol:
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Postby Spoilt Victorian Child » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:14 am

I think it's actually trying to have its cake and eat it too on the trans stuff -- at the very least I would say it's leveraging gender confusion in an unseemly way. But I guess the fact that Bill's version of cross-dressing involves wearing other people's skin complicates things somewhat.
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Postby No Good Advice » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:14 am

I'm very weak for the stagey sing-speak that every musical requires you to sit through. that moment it goes from speak-speak to sing-speak
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Postby Bride of Qualls » Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:29 am

(gs's earlier thread) video for goodbye horses is pretty great

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=111491
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Postby Milk » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:34 am

neuartillery wrote:There was a girl named Ariel in my third-grade class, too.



im very glad the little mermaid came out when i was already 11. IF junior/middle/high school kids HAD seen it, they sure weren't gonna out themselves by calling me the little mermaid. Although i remember one person did it but it didn't catch on, and it's how i learned that was even her name.

Still because of this i kinda had a beef with the movie until a gf made me watch it hen i was like 22. Shortly after i got a little mermaid t shirt and this was my most treasured and popular tshirt for years. Popular as in everyone would always comment on it. I suppose it is unusual to see a(n allegedly) grown man wearing a little mermaid t shirt. I remember a few little girls on the street staring at me with what was probably a mix of incredulity and envy. I still have the shirt but its so old now, gf uses it as a sleep shirt. In any case, the little mermaid is great and i'm proud to share her name.
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Postby universe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:38 am

How fucking ballsy is it that during the movie's climax (lecter's escape) none of the major characters are on screen for what feels like 15 minutes. And it still works. That's Jim Pembry, dammit!

It's a perfect movie. One thing I love about it is how it manages to make minor characters seem fully realized with minimal effort. The entomologists at the beginning, the cops during Lecter's escape, "I've got Paul Kreisler here from Justice," Lecter's warden/rival. The script is so airtight.
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Postby universe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:42 am

I guess what I'm saying is that the minor characters aren't just devices used to advance the plot, they are actually characters within the plot and I think that's actually a rare thing to see.
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Postby Bride of Qualls » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:43 am

universe wrote:How fucking ballsy is it that during the movie's climax (lecter's escape) none of the major characters are on screen for what feels like 15 minutes. And it still works. That's Jim Pembry, dammit!

It's a perfect movie. One thing I love about it is how it manages to make minor characters seem fully realized with minimal effort. The entomologists at the beginning, the cops during Lecter's escape, "I've got Paul Kreisler here from Justice," Lecter's warden/rival. The script is so airtight.


and so fitting. an evil that's been swelling and swelling for the entire picture suddenly goes unseen.
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Postby universe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:46 am

Even at the end, when they reveal Lecter in the ambulance, they have the EMT report his heart rate in the background -- which calls back to Chilton's story about his heart rate never going above 85 when he mutilated the nurse.
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Postby neuartillery » Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:28 am

Merciel wrote:I guess you could make the argument that the movie should have gone farther out of its way to comment positively on gay people instead of just treating it as no big deal, totally routine, but I think if it had done that it would have been a weaker movie for straining to comment on irrelevant topics, and also it would have aged much more poorly. From the vantage point of 2017 it absolutely feels like the movie navigated that minefield successfully.


I think you could make that argument for a 2017 film, but given the frequency of casual homophobia in films/shows back then, not being openly repellent in that department seems like a minor miracle.
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Postby tgk » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:27 am

I distinctly remember watching this simpsons episode when it aired and everyone on the elementary school playground talking about it the next day. For kids our age, who remember the little mermaid as a major cultural event, it was maybe the funniest joke we'd ever seen.

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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:29 am

on the commentary for that scene one of the writers says "and it pre-dates the little mermaid" and i lost it
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Postby tgk » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:32 am

oh man
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Postby Merciel » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:14 pm

Spoilt Victorian Child wrote:I think it's actually trying to have its cake and eat it too on the trans stuff -- at the very least I would say it's leveraging gender confusion in an unseemly way. But I guess the fact that Bill's version of cross-dressing involves wearing other people's skin complicates things somewhat.


I honestly think it's just incidental to their wanting to do an even creepier version of Ed Gein.

If you want to do the transformational butterfly symbolism stuff, there are only so many ways you can have the serial killer wanting to transfigure himself by wearing the skins of his victims, and the other obvious route is even more Problematic (plus makes way less sense, because racial reassignment isn't a thing, and also ain't nobody, no matter how violently insane, who wants to give up his white privilege in 1991).

It's a little funny to think about the ways in which Buffalo Bill wanting to turn into a black dude would almost have to be played for laughs (actually I'm mildly surprised there hasn't been a parody doing this already) vs. how his wanting to turn into a woman is super creepy horror-movie fodder.

But anyway he has to want to wear the skin of a woman, literally and figuratively, because you need that as a counterpoint to Jodie Foster pushing against being boxed into "a woman's role."
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:16 pm

Merciel wrote:But anyway he has to want to wear the skin of a woman, literally and figuratively, because you need that as a counterpoint to Jodie Foster pushing against being boxed into "a woman's role."


man i am a dummy cause i never even considered this
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Postby Merciel » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:17 pm

Relatedly, I love how Jodie Foster's only apparent friend in the academy is the only other woman we ever see in training, and they're besties because they're both fighting back against everybody marginalizing them. But other than that, they don't appear to have anything in common, because the other female trainee is a black woman who seems pretty clearly to be from an upper-middle-class background, whereas Jodie Foster is an orphaned white girl from bumfuck West Virginia.

It's a nice little comment on unlikely friendships driven by shared adversity. The movie doesn't make a big thing out of it but it doesn't have to, anybody who's been there has lived it for themselves.
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Postby universe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:44 pm

Even the lady in the pit gets to be a cool character, when she holds the dog hostage.
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Postby Clive » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:19 pm

universe wrote:Even the lady in the pit gets to be a cool character, when she holds the dog hostage.


Wait, are we still talking Little Mermaid here?
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:20 pm

Clive wrote:
universe wrote:Even the lady in the pit gets to be a cool character, when she holds the dog hostage.


Wait, are we still talking Little Mermaid here?



Image

Don't you make me hurt your dog!
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Postby chairkicker » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:59 pm

universe wrote:I guess what I'm saying is that the minor characters aren't just devices used to advance the plot, they are actually characters within the plot and I think that's actually a rare thing to see.

and this isn't just the script, it's is a big part of why demme was such a good director in his prime
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Postby jewels » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:59 pm

as absurd as the entire premise of the Truman Show is, the part that annoys me the most is the waaay too small age gap between Jim Carey and Ed Harris. They are 11 years apart. Even if you tack on an additional 20 years it seems unlikely a 31 year old would have the clout to pull off something so expensive and with so many moving parts.
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Postby chairkicker » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:00 pm

dude loved incidental characters
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:03 pm

jewels wrote:as absurd as the entire premise of the Truman Show is, the part that annoys me the most is the waaay too small age gap between Jim Carey and Ed Harris. They are 11 years apart. Even if you tack on an additional 20 years it seems unlikely a 31 year old would have the clout to pull off something so expensive and with so many moving parts.


chairkicker wrote:dude loved incidental characters


:)
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Postby Merciel » Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:06 am

Beauty and the Beast (1991)

It was so weird watching the post-2002 version with the extra "Human Again" musical number inserted, because THAT WAS NOT IN THE MOVIE WHEN I WAS A KID, AND I KNOW THIS GODDAMN MOVIE. I know every fucking detail of this movie! Then they go and throw in an extra song and it's not even that good of a song! BAH HUMBUG.

Anyway. When I was 10 (i.e., when this came out), I loved it instantly because 10-year-old me was extremely into having a brunette bookworm main character, although I was fairly bitter that the Beast Prince is the least attractive of the Disney princes (this is still true btw). As an adult, I can see that it's not quite as spectacular as The Little Mermaid and the songs aren't as blast-your-face-off awesome, but whatever, I still love this movie and it holds up. Plus now I actually get all the Busby Berkeley references in "Be Our Guest" (and "Human Again," I guess, although pfft that doesn't belong in this movie).

The early sequences in the Beast's castle when everything's cold and ruined and terrifying are phenomenal. That and the intro sequence with the stained-glass windows and atmospheric music are peak fantasy movie for me right there.

It's pretty funny that (a) Mrs. Potts is clearly at least 60 and Chip is like 7, so how does the math even work out there; and (b) Chip apparently has six brothers and sisters but they, unlike him, have to live locked up in a cupboard all day. Mrs. Potts plays favorites with her kids worse than anybody I've ever encountered outside a Roald Dahl book.

I enjoyed the running Disney theme of the heroines demanding to expand their horizons and break out of bumfuck isolated communities, and that the villagers are explicitly villainous solely on the basis of being ignorant and angry and easily gulled into violence. Like all you have to do to be a villain in the Disney universe is be a Trump voter.

Speaking of which!, Gaston is great. His animation is A+, best villain ever.

I also enjoyed that this is the first of the fairy tale movies to be set explicitly in a real country, and yet Chip's still American because the kids are just always American in Disney.

9.5/10
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Postby Merciel » Sun Sep 10, 2017 3:53 am

Crocodile Dundee (1986)

aka Cartoon Masculinity: The Movie!

Going into this, my one clear memory of Crocodile Dundee is that the lead female actor takes off her bra without taking off her shirt, which my cousin (who was I think around 13 when we watched this? so definitely a Big Kid) offhandedly remarked was a useful life skill that you should totally learn, and since I was a small impressionable idiot I took those words to heart and assumed that someday I would definitely need to be able to do that.

I suppose that day may yet come, but so far it hasn't. I won't say that it's never been handy to be able to do that, but it's not exactly something that takes (or rewards) a lot of practice.

Anyway, having rewatched this movie, I now wonder what the fuck my cousin and I were watching that day that my mushbrain child memories conflated with this thing, because it sure as hell wasn't Crocodile Dundee. Linda Kozlowski doesn't wear a bra once in this entire movie, and the movie wants to make sure you know it.

This is not a very good movie. It mostly manages to at least be semi-entertainingly bad, but it's still pretty bad. The plot has no meaningful stakes or tension and there's no forward propulsion. What you get instead are a bunch of jokes that are mostly badly dated (for example, there's a recurring gag wherein Our Hero grabs a cross-dressed man by the crotch to resolve his gender confusion issues, and this is a cool funny thing that everybody cheers, incl. the second groping victim) and some extremely iffy survival techniques (protip: do not actually try to open a can by stabbing it in the face with a bush knife).

There are also some weird interludes in which Crocodile Dundee is quizzed about his political views (none), asked to opine on the land grabs that seized Australian native people's land (he replies with a hand-wavy anecdote about how you can't really own the land because we are but specks in the universe and the earth will long outlive us, etc., which is well and good but doesn't actually answer the question of what you do when somebody claims they own the land, puts a fence around it, and kicks you off), and turns out to not actually give a shit about loud drunkards shooting at kangaroos, himself, and Our Lady of Cardboard, patron saint of thankless leading lady roles.

All in all it's a pretty stellar example of a mediocre '80s comedy that has aged super poorly and isn't that funny apart from a couple of minor glimmers like Crocodile Dundee's tall tales in a bar. The sexism is off the charts, and that goes for Crocodile Dundee too. Poor guy has got to be straining pretty painfully to fit his Procrustean bed of manhood.

I remember reading an interview one time with an Australian actor (it might have been Hugh Jackman? I'm not sure about this) who said he went into acting in part because he saw this movie, which at the time was the only worldwide popular portrayal of his country, and he didn't want the world to think that's what Australians were really like.

That makes a lot of sense to me now. Crocodile Dundee isn't so bad, but I don't think I'd want to be repped by Paul Hogan.

5.5/10
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Postby Spoilt Victorian Child » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:02 am

It's such a simple idea: take the most irritating person you can think of, make him a Mary Sue, and voila, your movie sucks. Yet somehow Crocodile Dundee is the only movie I know of that's hit upon this formula.

The only other thing I can think to say about this movie is that it's clearly where Merciel's dad learned how to act in a city.
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Postby Spoilt Victorian Child » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:05 am

I love whoever submitted this quote on Rotten Tomatoes:

Michael J. "Crocodile" Dundee: Call that a knife? Thats a knife.
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Postby Merciel » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:11 am

Spoilt Victorian Child wrote:The only other thing I can think to say about this movie is that it's clearly where Merciel's dad learned how to act in a city.


ahee, I was thinking that exact same thing

I actually don't think he likes Crocodile Dundee very much (though I could well be wrong on this), but yeah, that definitely is where he learned how to act in a city.
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Postby Spoilt Victorian Child » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:18 am

"No one says 'hi' when you pass them on the sidewalk." So true. We city folk have really lost sight of what's important in life. Excuse me, I have to find someone to drive a stake through my heart.
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