mindfulness / meditation resources

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Postby internethandle » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:35 am

yeah sound only as object is what got me into meditation

i also sometimes pay attention to my in breath only, and then on the out breath listen to the environment. really fun!
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Postby tarantula » Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:08 am

bear wrote:but also I started meditating because I wanted to learn to pay attention more intently and this seemed like a way to practice doing that and is that really so bad?


what? that's the only reason you should do it
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Postby bear » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:52 am

oh, okay. it's just that wolfie said to not have any goals, and I wasn't sure exactly what type of goals he was talking about.

I love the sound meditation, i think it's something i've been doing for a long time.

when i was in rehab and had a lot of free time, sometimes i did a sort of visual meditation where I would just sit in my room and try to notice everything in my visual plane and how those things look. noticing things I had never noticed before. paying attention to the way that curtain folds. how the light changes colors. reflections I never saw before.
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Postby Dinosauria We » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:24 am

have been holding myself more accountable to meditation of late. i had a great stretch when i was doing it daily but then it sort of fell away and i developed a mental block where i couldn't get back in the swing of things.

while i would love to meditate every day, the fact is there are some days when i can't bring myself to do it. this feeling gets me down. i sort of feel like discipline and accountability go against the practice as a whole, so i try to not be rulery and do it when the mood is right. of course, i need to do it everyday because it makes me feel better. that is all to say my relationship with meditation is, at times, a difficult one.
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Postby Kwisatz Haderach » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:40 am

wildarms wrote:someone called him “mr. rogers for adults”

strangely enough i think adults need a mr rogers more than kids
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Postby internethandle » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:25 am

Dinosauria We wrote:have been holding myself more accountable to meditation of late. i had a great stretch when i was doing it daily but then it sort of fell away and i developed a mental block where i couldn't get back in the swing of things.

while i would love to meditate every day, the fact is there are some days when i can't bring myself to do it. this feeling gets me down. i sort of feel like discipline and accountability go against the practice as a whole, so i try to not be rulery and do it when the mood is right. of course, i need to do it everyday because it makes me feel better. that is all to say my relationship with meditation is, at times, a difficult one.


jack kornfield talks about this sort of thing being really common in this interview (and in the associated book), which may be helpful - i quoted a pertinent part:

https://www.lionsroar.com/be-free-now-an-interview-with-jack-kornfield/

Have Buddhists in the West perhaps misinterpreted the teachings in ways that reinforce their tendencies toward depression, stress, or self-criticism?

We see that commonly. Ambition, self-criticism, shame, self-judgment, and so forth are rife in our culture. For many people, that shows up in their spiritual practice, which becomes either a grim duty or a way to try to improve themselves. They become uptight or rigid in their practice.

The point of these practices is not to perfect ourselves. We’ve all been going to the gym, changing our diet, going to therapy, doing different kinds of meditation, and so forth. These help us some, but we’re still sort of the same weird person as when we started, with the same personality.

The aim of dharma practice is to experience a sense of freedom and joy where we are. Now, this doesn’t mean there are no hard times in practice or in life. There are inevitably hard times in which we face our deepest fears and confusions, our pain and demons. We have to tend and heal the traumas and sorrows that human life brings us with compassion. But this is not a grim duty. It’s a step-by-step journey of freedom and liberation.


so, basically you can try counteracting that drivenness with self-compassion or lovingkindness practice (keeping in mind being self-compassionate can be as simple as letting yourself not meditate that day when you don't feel like it)
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Postby Dinosauria We » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:44 pm

internethandle wrote:
Dinosauria We wrote:have been holding myself more accountable to meditation of late. i had a great stretch when i was doing it daily but then it sort of fell away and i developed a mental block where i couldn't get back in the swing of things.

while i would love to meditate every day, the fact is there are some days when i can't bring myself to do it. this feeling gets me down. i sort of feel like discipline and accountability go against the practice as a whole, so i try to not be rulery and do it when the mood is right. of course, i need to do it everyday because it makes me feel better. that is all to say my relationship with meditation is, at times, a difficult one.


jack kornfield talks about this sort of thing being really common in this interview (and in the associated book), which may be helpful - i quoted a pertinent part:

https://www.lionsroar.com/be-free-now-an-interview-with-jack-kornfield/

Have Buddhists in the West perhaps misinterpreted the teachings in ways that reinforce their tendencies toward depression, stress, or self-criticism?

We see that commonly. Ambition, self-criticism, shame, self-judgment, and so forth are rife in our culture. For many people, that shows up in their spiritual practice, which becomes either a grim duty or a way to try to improve themselves. They become uptight or rigid in their practice.

The point of these practices is not to perfect ourselves. We’ve all been going to the gym, changing our diet, going to therapy, doing different kinds of meditation, and so forth. These help us some, but we’re still sort of the same weird person as when we started, with the same personality.

The aim of dharma practice is to experience a sense of freedom and joy where we are. Now, this doesn’t mean there are no hard times in practice or in life. There are inevitably hard times in which we face our deepest fears and confusions, our pain and demons. We have to tend and heal the traumas and sorrows that human life brings us with compassion. But this is not a grim duty. It’s a step-by-step journey of freedom and liberation.


so, basically you can try counteracting that drivenness with self-compassion or lovingkindness practice (keeping in mind being self-compassionate can be as simple as letting yourself not meditate that day when you don't feel like it)


wow, this is really great and extremely on point in my case. i felt sort of alone on this issue because i haven't been able to find much on it, so this helps my processing of it a ton. thanks for sharing it.
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Postby wolfie » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:24 pm

A big problem is we end up discovering this stuff because of Serious Stuff, and we assume that Serious Stuff needs a Serious Solution.

Turns out it’s more like it wasn’t so serious to begin with and the solution isn’t seriousness or lightheartedness, it’s just to stop with all this bullshit and look at what’s in front of your face. And what’s in front of your face isn’t really serious, it’s more awesome and fun simply by the nature of its being, so go with it.

One thing Watts got into my head was the realization that everything is a game. Everything. So when I get fucked up on some issue I’m like “what game is this? Whose game is this? How’s it work? Do I wanna play?” And so on. And you start to see your problems as pieces of a particular game, and then you can react as you would when playing a game - that is with the realization that it IS a game, and you can choose to play it and not be owned by it. You can play and lose and so what.
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Postby bear » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:27 pm

this could be relevant but I haven't read it:
Finite and Infinite Games
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004W3FM4A/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
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Postby wolfie » Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Cool that looks fun. Added it to my wish list
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Postby pokethedoke » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:09 pm

does anyone have links so I can give off better energy, have more positive energy, and just bring good energy to other people. I think I give off bad energy sometimes because of how much I hate my job
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Postby internethandle » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:23 pm

metta/lovingkindness in general. this may be a little too advanced/hard to understand without prior familiarity with his system, but shinzen young's nurture positive (basically his version of metta) might also be helpful. broadly, you trigger positive body sensation by thinking a positive thought of some sort, and then meditate on the sensation or imagine it radiating outward, etc., or train yourself to notice when it spontaneously appears from a pleasant interaction in daily life - that sort of thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abRaPYjb6mA
https://www.shinzen.org/nurture-positive/
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Postby sailormoonvillain666@aol.com » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:36 am

is there anything specifically good for getting rid of bad intrusive thoughts on extreme despair and senses of failure due to ~yrs lost~ on mental illness and now feeling like ur always behind and out place. i know its ultimately dumb and meaningless but its rough at times!!!!!
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Postby sailormoonvillain666@aol.com » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:52 am

i had a singular coffee and now a mess ama
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Postby sailormoonvillain666@aol.com » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:56 am

im doing combat sports training twice a week now, lets see if u can wack the despair outta you
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Postby blues » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:28 am

glad i noticed this thread exists. i had an idea to start the 'antidepressant thread' and fill it with good philosophy and stuff like what's been listed in this thread.

my contribution is the buddhify app, it's pretty good
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Postby blues » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:33 am

also even though you're not really 'supposed' to talk about stoicism in a sense, i found this book hugely helpful. audiobook link below but also available as a real book:

https://www.audible.com.au/pd/Non-ficti ... B00G6ZZ3EQ
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Postby internethandle » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:01 am

sailormoonvillain666@aol.com wrote:is there anything specifically good for getting rid of bad intrusive thoughts on extreme despair and senses of failure due to ~yrs lost~ on mental illness and now feeling like ur always behind and out place. i know its ultimately dumb and meaningless but its rough at times!!!!!


been meaning to try out this Vajrayana practice for a bit, seems appropriate:

https://www.lionsroar.com/how-to-practice-feeding-your-demons/

but in terms of something that i know can be effective in mindfulness, this working with thoughts instruction from an old issue of tricycle is pretty thorough/good:

Guided Meditation: Counting Thoughts

As you sit, resolve to concentrate on the thought process for five minutes. Let your mind appear as a blank screen, and watch carefully for thoughts to arise. They may come as images, or words in the mind, or both together. Some thoughts may arise with a feeling or physical sense as well. Note experience as it appears.

For five minutes, experiment with counting your thoughts. After noticing and counting the thoughts, simply wait, looking at the blank screen, for the next one to arise. Remember that some thoughts are very subtle, like “It’s so quiet in here.” We count the thoughts not to form a judgment about ourselves and how much (or little) we think, but to observe the thought process with mindfulness, without getting lost in each story. Can you describe your experience?

Carefully note each breath as “breath.” As thoughts arise, note them simply as “not-breath.” This also helps us cut our dualistic fixation with the content of our thoughts. Whether lovely or frightening, they are all noted simply as “not-breath.” What kinds of thoughts predominate in your mind—words or pictures, those arising with a kinesthetic sense, or a combination?

If images are arising, can you note them as “seeing” and notice whether they are growing brighter, fading, breaking apart, moving closer, or staying just the same? Can you note the particular kind of thought, such as “planning,” “remembering,” “judging,” “loving”?

Observe the effect of various types of thoughts—for example, of a future-directed thought like “I’m never going to get any better.” What happens to your mood, to your body, as a consequence of this thought? What is the difference between simply observing it and getting lost in it?

Can you name an insistent thought with a label that reflects some compassion and humor? We call them the Top Ten tapes because they arise in the form of conditioned tapes in the mind. They play like songs on the radio, reflecting the same themes over and over again. Try giving them appropriate labels like “the Martyr tape,” “the I-Blew-It-Again tape,” “the Fear-of-the-Dark tape.” Be lighthearted about these labels. We can see these tapes as conditioned forces and don’t have to take ourselves so seriously. The repeated forces in the mind can be greeted in a friendly and openhearted way: “Oh, it’s you again, Mad Scientist tape. Hello.”

If a particular thought seems to be returning a lot, expand your field of attention to notice whatever emotional state may be feeding it. Unseen feelings are part of what brings thoughts back again and again. For example, anxiety often fuels future planning. At first the emotions may be half-hidden or unconscious, but if you pay careful attention, the feelings will reveal themselves. Use the sensations in the body to help guide the attention to whatever emotions may be present. You may find that watching tension in the chest uncovers sadness. Begin to note whatever emotion you see as a way of acknowledging them.

If there is a repeated physical pain or difficult mood, expand your field of attention to the thoughts, stories, or beliefs that may be feeding the difficult situation. When we are mindful, we may find a subtle level of self-judgment or a belief about our unworthiness, such as “I’m not as good as others. I’ll always be this way.” These thoughts actually help perpetuate pain or unhappiness.
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Postby internethandle » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:07 am

speaking of vajrayana shinzen young at one point was a monk in the japanese shingon tradition, which is an esoteric form of buddhism that is really obscure outside of japan and has a lot of yogic practices and what have you that seem really alien and wild coming from a mindfulness/vipassana perspective. someone on this shinzen facebook group i'm part of posted these shots from one of the only english language explications of shingon in circulation right now he found in some library:

https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28071144_10214472129424435_1131025375525242910_o.jpg?oh=e2e71cac21f4d02e19360f1983b9e8b0&oe=5B4AB763
https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/28071236_10214472129464436_3268489394617877929_o.jpg?oh=b31eeaaf3582217f2c32842cd4d0bf0c&oe=5B47BFC0

p. cool imo.
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Postby internethandle » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:23 am

should emphasize i guess that those sorts of practices are not mindfulness practices strictly speaking and so probably not thread-appropriate, but if they work for you i don't see a problem
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Postby bear » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:13 pm

i really love the book wolfie rec'd awhile ago, "The Mindful Way Through Depression"
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Postby easy » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:16 pm

anyone have any thoughts on this book? it was recently recommended to me:

https://www.amazon.com/Meditation-Fidgety-Skeptics-Happier-How/dp/0399588949
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Postby Bad craziness » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:36 pm

honestly shocked by how much this podcast interview has changed my thinking since I listened to it

highly recommended

https://www.fs.blog/2017/02/naval-ravikant-reading-decision-making/
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Postby whatabout tim » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:10 pm

Thanks for the podcast rec bad craziness. The list of books discussed is really interesting
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Postby Beautiful Jugdish » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:12 pm

decided this weekend im gonna give this a go again for the first time in like 6 years. really helpful thread.
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Postby flimsy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:45 pm

whatabout tim wrote:Thanks for the podcast rec bad craziness. The list of books discussed is really interesting


one of the books discussed is by scott adams?? :?
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Postby Bad craziness » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:57 pm

the list is from a brief moment in the podcast where a billionaire investor is randomly listing a dozen out of the hundreds of books he's currently got on his kindle
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Postby whatabout tim » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:02 pm

Yea, the episode was great. I may even relisten. Jumping down the farnham street rabbit hole as a result
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Postby papabones » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:17 pm

wolfie wrote:A big problem is we end up discovering this stuff because of Serious Stuff, and we assume that Serious Stuff needs a Serious Solution.

Turns out it’s more like it wasn’t so serious to begin with and the solution isn’t seriousness or lightheartedness, it’s just to stop with all this bullshit and look at what’s in front of your face. And what’s in front of your face isn’t really serious, it’s more awesome and fun simply by the nature of its being, so go with it.

One thing Watts got into my head was the realization that everything is a game. Everything. So when I get fucked up on some issue I’m like “what game is this? Whose game is this? How’s it work? Do I wanna play?” And so on. And you start to see your problems as pieces of a particular game, and then you can react as you would when playing a game - that is with the realization that it IS a game, and you can choose to play it and not be owned by it. You can play and lose and so what.


You do realize how this kind of rationale might be used to justify the most horrible atrocities conceivable, right? Should we be playing games with the lives of other people and sentient beings? Are they really just playthings? Is that really the kind of attitude that you approach life with? Really think about what you're saying. If you're a decent human being, I don't think you actually believe any of this.

I stand by my conviction that Alan Watts is a wicked person espousing an infantile philosophy.
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Postby easy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:19 pm

finally: the meditation thread is heating the FUCK up
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