mindfulness / meditation resources

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Postby Robo-Chachi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:41 pm

internethandle wrote:yeah, i don't even pay any attention to that function of insight timer purposefully. i think they try and mitigate the potential for that effect by limiting the length of "milestones," so it will give you one for 20 days with a session and nothing further than that (it resets), but it still has graphs and other ways of quantifying things that are pretty questionable in their usefulness.


So are you saying I shouldn't have created a Hipinion group on there?
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Postby iambic » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:57 pm

is the headspace app any good? my boss does it in his office every morning, or at least that's why he claims the door is shut
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Postby dragons69 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:01 pm

oh also theres a new thread in members for non anxiety / non depression mental illness
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Postby Robo-Chachi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:24 pm

iambic wrote:is the headspace app any good? my boss does it in his office every morning, or at least that's why he claims the door is shut


Like Calm, it's an app you have to pay something like $50-60 to fully unlock. Of the 3 (Insight Timer, Calm and Headpsace) it was my least favorite of the ones I tried. I didn't try it for too long though.
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Postby internethandle » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:25 pm

i've seen other more experienced meditators than myself poo-poo headspace a bit, i think primarily because of its monetization model/branding. it smacks a bit of luminosity for mindfulness or something, which sets up, again, some expectation. you do have to balance discouraging people from using it, however, with a sort of "something is better than nothing" stance, especially w/r/t someone like iambic's boss who has already paid for it and possibly is getting some benefit or use out of it. there's no more correct way to do this stuff, as wolfie intimated, and something like headspace's marketing itself as "scientifically backed" bothers me less than ultra-dogmatist theravadans shitting all over the "western mindfulness industry" and telling you that the only correct way to pay attention to the breath is with the whole body, because That's What The Buddha Said In The Suttas. also, most apps do have some amount of monetization built-in (insight timer, for instance, has unlockable sacred bell/bowl sounds as alternatives to the stock ones rung at the beginning/end or at intervals).

in terms of other apps i've tried buddhify before. it's about $6 iirc and has situational guided meditations (while travelling, while eating, while walking, etc. etc.) that have actually been fairly helpful when i'm "off the cushion" and would like to bring mindfulness to a situation and am having trouble doing so on my own.
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Postby whatabout tim » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:36 pm

internethandle wrote:oh also insight timer seemingly has little to no filter for who can add guided meditations and when, so while really well respected teachers have ones on there, there'll also be some idiot's KUNDALINI EGO ANNIHILATION meditations, too, so just use common sense if choosing or look up the person who posted it


Does anyone have any specific recommendations? Would love to get a random assortment that I can rotate through.
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Postby Robo-Chachi » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:36 pm

I'e been wanting to treat myself to that Shurong bell for some time now. So deep.
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Postby internethandle » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:52 pm

i'm a kangse person myself but i fuck with ombu also
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Postby internethandle » Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:01 pm

whatabout tim wrote:
internethandle wrote:oh also insight timer seemingly has little to no filter for who can add guided meditations and when, so while really well respected teachers have ones on there, there'll also be some idiot's KUNDALINI EGO ANNIHILATION meditations, too, so just use common sense if choosing or look up the person who posted it


Does anyone have any specific recommendations? Would love to get a random assortment that I can rotate through.


- 'breathing meditation' by jack kornfield
- 'breath, sound, and body meditation' by diana winston
- 'guided meditation on receptive listening' by michael stone
- 'see, hear, feel' by shinzen young
- 'letting go of intention' by stephanie nash
- 'big mind meditation' by mark adrian coleman

pretty much any other ones available by above
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Postby papabones » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:49 pm

Do you all really want to off yourselves by taking up Buddhist practice?
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Postby dvr » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:46 pm

following
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Postby conductor » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:50 pm

papabones wrote:Do you all really want to off yourselves by taking up Buddhist practice?

Yes I suppose so
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Postby internethandle » Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:51 pm

<3 u pb
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Postby tiger » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:29 pm

Image

this is one of the best books i've ever read. outlines the vast scope of the pitfalls of unguided practice. i think it has a hook for everyone. all i use is a 4 count inhale/exhale 2 hold. a lot of people have been telling me how much happier i seem since last year. wolfie's posts were an introductory inkling in the anxiety thread. one time i got pulled over while fucked up for a taillight and the cop didn't seem to notice but i had a mild attack that lasted the whole night and my uncle immediately put 'full catastrophe living' in my hands. my mind used to race so fast that i never thought i was 'sitting correctly' because i couldn't tame the stream. you just have to exist with it and watch it. david lynch narrates his audiobook for 'catching the big fish' and he goes past the TM party lines for the creative benefits but nothing particular to practicing.

papabones, nice rep for the early christian slam on the 'quietists'. it's just a matter of transmuting neurotic energy into something more useful. what do you think about jung's assertion that the next age of christianity will be christ as an inner projection of the psyche, as a continuation of this one marked by the descent of yahweh into the realm of man as christ.
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Postby internethandle » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:46 pm

hell yeah @ chogyam trungpa

hadn't heard of that one and sounds pretty perfect. grabbing.
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Postby Hieronymus Kush » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:40 am

Zen mind, beginners mind by shunryu Suzuki is a sick book
I like Buddhism without beliefs too

Iill try that insight app. I usually just set a 15 minute timer on my phone and sit on my zafu
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Postby Robo-Chachi » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:25 am

They actually approved the Hipinion group on Insight timer if anyone wants to join up.
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Postby snuggle » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:05 am

I have been meditating for years and occasionally go to zen centers. Recent personal events in my life have sent me grappling with spirituality in general, from fringe to organized...what path to take? I love many aspects of Buddhism but the aspect of it being an imported religion or path turns me off a bit. And I do get a sense the American teachers and authors are a lot different but I can’t entirely put my finger on as to why. Also for some reason a LOT of the big westernized Buddhist teachers turn me off, they seem kind of fluffy or something. Could be my issue. I never stepped foot into a church as a child but my daughter is going to catholic school and I am exploring Catholicism. There are a lot of things that infuriate me about it (they have lobbied millions to extend statute of limitations in cases of sexual abuse, wtf) which I find unacceptable. Yet so far the community aspect is rich at the microcosm and they actually DO things volunteer wise and have the cash to do it. It’s a far cry from how I spent my last decade of my life tied to an insular cult like group. I’m not joining it but it has opened my eyes to an area of America I’ve never been open to witnessing. Anyway end rant. Here are some book/author recommendations that I enjoy

Anything by krishnamurti is brilliant and really gets one to think or get in that selfless space. He doesn’t have much on meditation per se but his books are pure philosophical meditation imo. Get any of his books.

Eckhart Tolle is a great thinker. Give him a try. Any of his books. Also audio of him is hilarious

What the Buddha taught by thich nhat hanh a great intro to Buddhism in general

The dhammapadha as a “primary” ish source

Climbing the blue mountain by Eknath Easwaren wonderful inspirational essays about meditation.

Mindfulness in plain English by henepola gunaratana a vipassana perspective well written and detailed.
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Postby whatabout tim » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:55 am

Thanks for the recs.
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Postby whatabout tim » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:32 am

tiger wrote:Image

this is one of the best books i've ever read. outlines the vast scope of the pitfalls of unguided practice. i think it has a hook for everyone. all i use is a 4 count inhale/exhale 2 hold. a lot of people have been telling me how much happier i seem since last year. wolfie's posts were an introductory inkling in the anxiety thread. one time i got pulled over while fucked up for a taillight and the cop didn't seem to notice but i had a mild attack that lasted the whole night and my uncle immediately put 'full catastrophe living' in my hands. my mind used to race so fast that i never thought i was 'sitting correctly' because i couldn't tame the stream. you just have to exist with it and watch it. david lynch narrates his audiobook for 'catching the big fish' and he goes past the TM party lines for the creative benefits but nothing particular to practicing.

papabones, nice rep for the early christian slam on the 'quietists'. it's just a matter of transmuting neurotic energy into something more useful. what do you think about jung's assertion that the next age of christianity will be christ as an inner projection of the psyche, as a continuation of this one marked by the descent of yahweh into the realm of man as christ.


Picked this up and did my first shorter meditation this morning (6 minutes). Really liking the insight timer. I read 10% happier last year and wanted to get into meditation but felt overwhelmed by the options out there (even though a simple timer like insight is all I really needed). The guided meditations are a nice bonus.
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Postby Mister E » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:47 am

Pacifica seems like a really cool app so far, heard about it earlier today and checked it out. Seems like a more guided and personal Insight Timer app.
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Postby wolfie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:17 pm

papabones wrote:Do you all really want to off yourselves by taking up Buddhist practice?


I mean you can just breathe and forget about all the religious stuff if you wanna. Basic mindfulness stuff doesn’t require you to be of any particular religion.

Read something like The Relaxation Response and just utilize breathing exercises for the scientifically valid psychological and physiological effects.

Problem is if you’re interested in this stuff the path into reading about some eastern philosophy quickly opens up. Even something like the dialectical behavior therapy workbook I recommended in one of the psych threads acknowledges these ties.
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Postby Robo-Chachi » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:15 pm

wolfie wrote:Remember STOP TRYING TO ACHIEVE SHIT THROUGH MEDITATION


I keep coming back to this idea the last several days. I mean, it isn't anything I haven't heard from others and I understand the sentiment but if people felt 0% different from doing it why would anyone do it? Isn't achieving some sense of mindfulness the goal? And then once you become more mindful you use that to start working on real change?

I've only been doing a daily practice for about 5 weeks now and I've been able to identify a bunch of shit I want to be better about. I feel like one of my biggest roadblocks to bettering myself in several different aspects is how much disdain I have. I have this aggressive manifestation of "do no harm" where I just seethe with anger at all the (what I deem) selfish behavior I see people exhibit: driving like assholes, people who leave 2 tbps. of coffee in the work coffee pot, cutting in line, Republicans, treating service workers like shit, etc. I could go on forever and I just judge the shit out of people constantly.

I'm never going to achieve any sense of calm until I can figure out how to stop losing my shit and accept we're all a bunch of idiots and there's nothing I can do to change 99.999999999% of it.
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Postby wolfie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:21 pm

It doesn’t mean stop trying to achieve shit or better yourself or anything.

It just means don’t attach all that shit to meditation. Don’t make meditation the means to an end. Don’t judge “how it’s going” (the meditation), or whether or not it’s makjg you feel special or whatever. Do it because you want to do it, don’t make it a chore.

See the problem is that you meditate with a goal in mind, right? I wanna achieve x, y, z. And next thing you know you’re judging yourself and your meditation and what you are and aren’t doing, and you’ve just found a new way to beat yourself up over the same shit wrapped in the cloak of mindfulness.

Like judgement is a part of a lot of problems.... leave judgement out of meditation. It’s hard to do because we’re trained to do things for a reason, an outcome. Well, not this time.
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Postby wolfie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:27 pm

Like chances are you’ll critique your meditation performance anyways. You read “how to meditate”, then sit down and do it, and you say “I’m supposed to focus on my breath” and six seconds in you’re thinking about your dog and you catch yourself and you’re like “i fucked up ok back to business” and six seconds later you’re thinking about how maybe you’re not sitting the right way, and this happens over and over and over and over and you’ll be like “I’m so bad at this”, and that’s the problem right there - there’s no good or bad at this. Just do it, stop judging it. Watch for your own mental judgements and kick them the fuck out. Well, just release them and they evaporate, don’t judge yourself, do it over and over, and expect nothing, just practice it.
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Postby wolfie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:33 pm

Chachi it’s not that it won’t make some kind of difference in your life, it’s that expecting differences to manifest themselves in a particular way just sets you up for disappointment because none of this shit follows some clear cut path.

Maybe you’ll do it for a month and be like “this is bullshit” and that’s ok too. You’re not signing up for some shit here. It’s just a thing you can do or not do. You may find you like doing it. Maybe not. Sometimes it’s easy. Lots of times it’s hard. It’s practice. Practice paying attention. Practice letting go of invasive thoughts. Practice letting go of judgements, etc. but don’t make it a critical life or death endeavor, because then you’ll ruin it. Don’t take all this too seriously. It’s serious but not serious.
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Postby wolfie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:35 pm

I mean we all get here because we want to accomplish something. But you learn that paradoxically in this case the accomplishing comes from not trying to accomplish shit. Or something like that. Someone help me out.


I mean I’m trying but I ain’t no master either

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Postby wildarms » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:09 pm

since there’s a lot of app talk: samsara is a great SMPL timer app for nonguided meditation. i like its tibetan bells for starting and stopping. i use it every morning
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Postby wildarms » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:15 pm

i’m also really into thich nhat hanh

someone called him “mr. rogers for adults” which i really like, in the endless warmth to him and gentleness and the clarity with which he distills his message

i like how much he likes mindful walking
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Postby Robo-Chachi » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:03 am

wolfie wrote:Chachi it’s not that it won’t make some kind of difference in your life, it’s that expecting differences to manifest themselves in a particular way just sets you up for disappointment because none of this shit follows some clear cut path.

Maybe you’ll do it for a month and be like “this is bullshit” and that’s ok too. You’re not signing up for some shit here. It’s just a thing you can do or not do. You may find you like doing it. Maybe not. Sometimes it’s easy. Lots of times it’s hard. It’s practice. Practice paying attention. Practice letting go of invasive thoughts. Practice letting go of judgements, etc. but don’t make it a critical life or death endeavor, because then you’ll ruin it. Don’t take all this too seriously. It’s serious but not serious.


Oh I don't expect things to manifest themselves and I'm not critical of myself during practice. Sometimes I have shitty ones and I know that is the way it goes. It's what I do outside of practice where I'm looking to achieve things.

This is probably all just boiling down to semantics here on what "achieving" represents.

I finished Wherever You Go, There You Are last week and I've started in on Mindfulness in Plain English. I'm not far into it, but I'm really liking it so far.
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