Are you excited for the new Jordan Peterson shit

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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:39 am

Never been so thankful that all of the conservative shitheads I have to deal with are Bill O'Reilly-obsessed boomers
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Postby Marlon Rando » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:39 am

shark week wrote:i try to state my objection/opinion to their pov in the most direct and unambiguous way


and what does that sound like?

I usually say something about how JP is just telling people what they want to hear, that he's not challenging any of their beliefs, just easy answers

I don't think you can mention misogyny because they can't hear that at all

I can't get too angry at these people because they're JP's illiterate victims who are desperate for someone to tell them how to be in this shitty world, and many are oblivious to his right-wing politics, like my friend EJ
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Postby jewels » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:02 pm

If someone was to ask me why he is bad I don’t think I could give a good response.
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Postby jewels » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:02 pm

Cleaning your room is overrated
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Postby Marlon Rando » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:11 pm

I have said to some of these people something like "it's easy to believe that cleaning your room will make you a better person, it's easy to believe you're the victim of an unjust world, but it's a lot harder to take stock and admit that a lot of what you believe is wrong -- a lot of the best people have messy rooms"

I have gotten a good reaction to that, like at least a pause

I have not gotten a good reaction when I mention misogyny or politics or his academic reputation or jungian psychology, etc. they're primed for that.
Last edited by Marlon Rando on Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby rich uncle skeleton » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:12 pm

Just show him this

[tweet]https://twitter.com/classiclib3ral/status/1009716701385101313?s=21[/tweet]

I’m mostly kidding but there’s lots of in depth Peterson take downs. If yr buddy just likes him for the self help stuff and is like oh yeah I should clean up my room then whatever, but if he’s like yeah the cultural marxists are trying to turn the West into an authoritarian nightmare then show him the ContraPoints video or the Current Affaurs article, which both point out that he’s wrong, and are not presented in super academic terms
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Postby Marlon Rando » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:14 pm

nah man that's far too intellectual for these people

and we're not going to out logic these dudes
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Postby rich uncle skeleton » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:35 pm

Well I like those examples cause they engage but I don’t think they try to “out logic” I agree that’s not a good route
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Postby Sobieski » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:47 pm

Why doesn't he think of the Peterson stuff as intellectual? Maybe it's the aspirational self help framing of it

I think it's kind of easy to forget that a lot of times people want media that affirms and entertains them. Especially when they mostly look at it as a diversion and just want to watch a comedy or something.

Maybe give him some stuff that first turned you on to like art in a wider sense. I feel like Peterson reaches a lot of people that have never really engaged with the humanities before, and then he tells them about meaning in a very circumscribed way. Maybe tug harder on that thread of 'meaning' and existentialism and stuff
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Postby Sobieski » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:59 pm

There's always the visceral Why are you letting this guy call you Bucko, why accept him as your dad haha? question
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Postby murderhorn » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:20 pm

jewels wrote:If someone was to ask me why he is bad I don’t think I could give a good response.


I read this review of Graeber's book recently and this part stuck with me. Doesn't explain why is he is bad I guess as much as why it is difficult for people to give a short explanation as to why:

Peterson is an intellectual troll and, as Whitney Phillips’ definitive study of trolls concludes, that means he has a keen sense of how to inject ideas that “replicate behaviors and attitudes that in other contexts are actively celebrated.” By manipulating context and knowing when and where to break with decorum, he can create controversy by saying things that most powerful people already agree are true.It is this ability to rearticulate hegemony while appearing as though you are speaking truth to power that generates the attention that social media algorithms are keen to pick up on.


- https://thesocietypages.org/cyborgology/2018/09/03/the-importance-of-simple-ideas/
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Postby Marlon Rando » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:22 pm

Sobieski wrote:Why doesn't he think of the Peterson stuff as intellectual? Maybe it's the aspirational self help framing of it

I think it's kind of easy to forget that a lot of times people want media that affirms and entertains them. Especially when they mostly look at it as a diversion and just want to watch a comedy or something.

Maybe give him some stuff that first turned you on to like art in a wider sense. I feel like Peterson reaches a lot of people that have never really engaged with the humanities before, and then he tells them about meaning in a very circumscribed way. Maybe tug harder on that thread of 'meaning' and existentialism and stuff


this is 100% correct imo, esp the part about the humanities, which is hard to fathom for a lot of us pasty losers

I have a STEM major friend who is very smart, hates any kind of misogyny, is liberal in some sense but believes in chem trails and lizard people, makes a very nice living as a programmer/tech specialist, but again does not read and has fallen for JP's self-help angle. His problem may be that he doesn't know how to deal with women (at 28 he has had one sexual relationship)

in both cases I'm trying to introduce grown ass men to culture (I know the STEM dude less well but he has taken up science fiction novels with me and now loves the Dune novels)

a knowledge of some kind of culture is the antidote to Peterson I think because if you have read almost ANYTHING else you'll realize Peterson's a charlatan, just from his terrible writing

the challenge is getting dudes like EJ to read something
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Postby butter » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:34 pm

Marlon Rando wrote:I have said to some of these people something like "it's easy to believe that cleaning your room will make you a better person, it's easy to believe you're the victim of an unjust world, but it's a lot harder to take stock and admit that a lot of what you believe is wrong -- a lot of the best people have messy rooms"

I have gotten a good reaction to that, like at least a pause

I have not gotten a good reaction when I mention misogyny or politics or his academic reputation or jungian psychology, etc. they're primed for that.


Yeah. They already assume that progressives are elitist know-it-alls so any response along sociopolitical/academic lines they're going to view with immediate contempt and it'll just confirm their prejudice. My response to the customer I mentioned up thread was something like "there are a lot of self help books that say basically the same things he's saying, mostly 'common sense' truisms, which is why it's appealing, but there are some pretty negative trojan horses in it," to which he replied "fair enough."

Obviously I downplayed a lot and inside I was boiling with rage, but I like to think he walked away from the exchange with a seed of doubt. But I'm a default pessimist, so I'm going to say probably not this time. It's not impossible, though. I used to really like Malcolm Gladwell years ago (I wasn't much of a reader back then) until I read some thoughtful dissent that I couldn't disagree with (probably here on hpn) so I moved on.
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Postby an otter » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:35 pm

If someone tells me to fuck off for this take its fair, but: it's entirely possible to interpret Peterson's 12 Rules in such a surface-level way that someone who is simple like EJ may not even process the material as anything more than a self-improvement guide. Like, maybe he doesn't register the obvious misogyny and anti-social worldview of Peterson, and takes the moral of improving yourself at face value. Maybe he walked through that minefield clean.

Plenty (most?) like Peterson because of his regressive worldview, but maybe there's a subset of patrons who literally just think 12 Rules is a self help guide and nothing else. EJ seems to be an example maybe?
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Postby an otter » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:37 pm

To EJ, maybe it's just a go nowhere book about a man who likes to fish.
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Postby fester » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:53 pm

maybe have him read some Tucker Max?
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Postby jewels » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:19 pm

After years of avoiding him I listened to the Malcolm Gladwell podcast, he’s a good story teller and has an interesting point of view. I just have to remind myself some of what he’s saying might be total bullshit or correlation or whatever.

I suppose you could find JP interesting while not buying into everything, though that doesn’t seem to describe the people who love him.
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Postby Big Oil » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:25 pm

check out the big brain on Jordan over here

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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:25 pm



what
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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:26 pm

lol
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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:26 pm

"Sir, we use Whiz here"
"This is treasonous, and I will treat it as such"
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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:27 pm

this is me

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Postby draw » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:37 pm

If we're tagging ourselves in replies, this one is me
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Postby Feech La Manna » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:27 pm

hahahahahaha

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Postby butter » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:02 pm

What a dweeb.
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Postby an otter » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:09 pm

comin in hot

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Postby deadbass » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:20 pm

The other day, I happened to look at my former thesis supervisor's website and found that he's been keeping a blog. Most of the entries are about free speech on campus and he's been posting a bunch of stuff by Peterson and Haidt. It's so disappointing. This is a Joycean scholar who focuses on Derrida and I would think that Peterson's corruption of the word "postmodernism" would be instantly disqualifying for him. But then I started thinking about my supervisor's personal biography and I think I can see why he and a lot of people in academia would be drawn to him.

My former prof has been a sessional lecturer for 14 years at a pretty highly rated Canadian university, published several books, and still hasn't gotten tenure. Back when he supervised me, I remember him complaining that universities aren't promoting "traditional" academics like himself, but rather critical theorists. It was before this debate had really gotten started, and I thought he was super smart, so I remember nodding along and not thinking about it very much. At this point though, he's obviously developed quite a bit of resentment towards "identity politics" on campus and seems to harbour a grudge against this "strain of academic thinking" that he feels has cost him the success that he is due. I realized that his background is pretty similar to Peterson's (although JBP was more successful before he became famous).

I've been entertaining sending him an email about it, but I have a feeling he would tell me that he doesn't subscribe to all of what Peterson says (he definitely is (or was) an inclusive Prof, probably considers himself a capital L liberal), and then overwhelm me with a bunch of studies or whatever that back up what he says. This is all straw man of course, I don't think I'll likely interact with him ever again, but it got me thinking about what academics are thinking about all of this, and what it means to be interested in Peterson in an a la carte sort of way.

It's interesting because this prof is a pretty integral part of my own story (I felt like a total burnout in university, but he took me under his wing, got me into English Honours and made me feel like I had some sense of purpose), and all that time we had many many discussions and definitely talked politics and the politics of universities and I still didn't really see this coming. Those times (2005-2010) seem oddly pre-political, because the intense debate about trigger warnings and PC culture and whatnot were still in their infancy. He's not the first person in my orbit to have his standing in my mind altered by his admiration of Peterson, but it just makes me sad.

Sorry for this livejournal of a pointless post but I just had a swirl of thoughts after reading his blog and wanted to share.
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Postby ripersnifle » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:25 pm

Feech La Manna wrote:hahahahahaha

this email response is probably being printed on redbubble tees as we speak
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Postby ripersnifle » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:27 pm

deadbass wrote:The other day, I happened to look at my former thesis supervisor's website and found that he's been keeping a blog. Most of the entries are about free speech on campus and he's been posting a bunch of stuff by Peterson and Haidt. It's so disappointing. This is a Joycean scholar who focuses on Derrida and I would think that Peterson's corruption of the word "postmodernism" would be instantly disqualifying for him. But then I started thinking about my supervisor's personal biography and I think I can see why he and a lot of people in academia would be drawn to him.

My former prof has been a sessional lecturer for 14 years at a pretty highly rated Canadian university, published several books, and still hasn't gotten tenure. Back when he supervised me, I remember him complaining that universities aren't promoting "traditional" academics like himself, but rather critical theorists. It was before this debate had really gotten started, and I thought he was super smart, so I remember nodding along and not thinking about it very much. At this point though, he's obviously developed quite a bit of resentment towards "identity politics" on campus and seems to harbour a grudge against this "strain of academic thinking" that he feels has cost him the success that he is due. I realized that his background is pretty similar to Peterson's (although JBP was more successful before he became famous).

I've been entertaining sending him an email about it, but I have a feeling he would tell me that he doesn't subscribe to all of what Peterson says (he definitely is (or was) an inclusive Prof, probably considers himself a capital L liberal), and then overwhelm me with a bunch of studies or whatever that back up what he says. This is all straw man of course, I don't think I'll likely interact with him ever again, but it got me thinking about what academics are thinking about all of this, and what it means to be interested in Peterson in an a la carte sort of way.

It's interesting because this prof is a pretty integral part of my own story (I felt like a total burnout in university, but he took me under his wing, got me into English Honours and made me feel like I had some sense of purpose), and all that time we had many many discussions and definitely talked politics and the politics of universities and I still didn't really see this coming. Those times (2005-2010) seem oddly pre-political, because the intense debate about trigger warnings and PC culture and whatnot were still in their infancy. He's not the first person in my orbit to have his standing in my mind altered by his admiration of Peterson, but it just makes me sad.

Sorry for this livejournal of a pointless post but I just had a swirl of thoughts after reading his blog and wanted to share.
no, this is a really good post. thank-you for it. i've been wondering similar things.
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Postby ripersnifle » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:29 pm

has JBP posted about that "grievance studies" article in Aero? i'm almost certain he would.
also, can we keep a running list of these publications like Quillette and Aero lol
i admittedly didn't even know anything about the latter until that article blew up.

e: it's Areo i guess lol
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