The Last Jedi Spoilers Thread: A Pageturner, It Is Not

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Postby basenjis chortle » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:12 pm

post the time of day you saw it and how full the theatre was and what the people next to you were like

1. 10 AM Friday morning
2. Sold out
3. woman to the right of me was pouring vodka into a fountain cup during the previews (and using the cup holder to her left (mine by law))
guy to the left me of me was dressed in slacks and button shirt, tie, that obviously took a very long lunch break. he freaked out when ben and rey teamed up
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Postby Bad craziness » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:12 pm

yeah Serkis was fucking phenomenal

I feel like I should be caring more about what the hell is Snoke's deal even, but I really don't
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Postby Mesh » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:13 pm

If you sit down to a SW film champing at the bit for all the self-aware camp absurdity to start, you are a strange human being.
...brewed into the common yeast of the waves.
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Postby loaf angel » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:15 pm

Luke's not dead, he's surely alive!
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Postby loaf angel » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:15 pm

Mesh wrote:If you sit down to a SW film champing at the bit for all the self-aware camp absurdity to start, you are a strange human being.


nice try, nerd
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Postby pzadvance » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:17 pm

So many mixed feelings about this thing. Walked out of it feeling like it was a messier but more accomplished film than TFA but now I just keep dwelling on shit and I donno.

I guess I was partly ruined by reading so many vague reactions about how "surprising" and "unexpected" and "bold" the story choices were because I'm left feeling like this sort of just set up ep 9 as a retread of the OT's dynamic? rebels are all scrappy and diminished, First Order has the upper hand in every conceivable way, rey is All Good and kylo's All Bad... kind of struggling to see how this film did anything except wipe away the interesting ambiguities in favor of more clearly delineated, black and white forces of opposition.

and wtf is this new trilogy's obsession with all the death fakeouts? Finn and Poe in TFA, Leia, Finn, and Rose in this... what was bold about any of these choices? It's clear that Johnson didn't have a good idea for what to do with Finn in this film (feels like Han in ROTJ), but the bits of development he had here seemed to point toward one of two things: either a.) acknowledging/calling out his former cowardice and giving him a bold, brave, hero's death, or b.) getting him to forsake the Resistance after learning about their complicity with the corrupt arms trade. Like isn't his whole thing that he left the First Order to be on the side of good? And wouldn't it have been interesting to see a character we like and identify with depart from the ostensible Good Guys on moral grounds? So why show him the backdoor dealings at all if it isn't going to impact his storyline in any meaningful way? Sorta makes that seem like some obligatory topical "both sides do it" half-assed attempt at muddying the moral waters without any real consequence. And so if neither of those is what they were going for then, like... why is he still around? For some groan-y love triangle thing in the next film?

Also, the idea that Luke intended to "take care" of Kylo before the darkness consumed him had the ring of a daring development until it gets instantly undercut by Luke's insistence that he immediately changed his mind and "wasn't REALLY gonna DO anything" and Kylo just woke up at the wrong time/wrong place and "boy is this awkward i can explain" but nope too late! It's like the death fakeouts, it's aiming for a really exciting, audacious bit of character expansion but it fucks up the landing to the point of futility.

I did genuinely like this film's explorations of Rey and Kylo's characters and maybe it's all just pointless to be hypothesizing about where this is headed anyway but just taking stock of where everyone's at at the end of this film I feel like the potential has been sort of sapped out of a lot of them, and recalling the feeling of genuinely exciting, limitless potential after TFA I think that leaves me thinking of TLJ as a disappointment. maybe the joke's just on me for letting those early impressions color my expectations too much. im curious to see it again to sort all this out.
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Postby deadbass » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:21 pm

surly wrote:
deadbass wrote:If you really want to get into plot holes, this movie takes place like a week after TFA and the republic is completely gone somehow and the First Order is ascendant in a way that seems uhhh unrealistic. (I don't really want to get into plot holes with Star Wars)

You're aware they blew up the republic's entire fleet in tfa, right?


No, I was not aware (the visual storytelling of that section of TFA is pretty bad), although wookieepedia (ever helpful) suggests that a portion was destroyed, not the entire thing.
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Postby shacky » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:36 pm

the rt audience score for this dropped overnight from 66% to 59% (rotten)
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Postby Bad craziness » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:38 pm

at this point I really want to know how much was planned for 8 and 9 by the time they had locked the shooting script for 7

the more you learn about the writing process the more astonished you are by how much of it is flying by the seats of pants

like was Abrams really just opening all these threads with the expectation that someone else would be given free reign with them?

like did he even know who Rey's parents were or what Snoke's deal was or what was going to happen with Luke and Rey on the island?

and how Johnson wrote 8 and a treatment to 9 and how much of that will survive?

and how they planned for Leia to be a huge part of 9 and how they need to re-work it now?

and we'll never know anything more about the notes for 7-9 that Lucas offered when the deal went through?

and of course this is all in the shadow of Star Wars being made without the slightest inkling that Vader was Luke's father

it's such an unbelievably messy organic process and it's all basically day-to-day and down-to-the-wire it boggles the mind

BUT

then you have the transition from the shooting script to the final cut

and as soon as that's it's in the can, and as soon as it premieres, every line of dialogue and every single tiny event and background extra that manages to be in frame, it all becomes CANON and the fans treat this 2+ hour story, a story that was basically thrown together with chewing gum and twine while jumping along an obstacle course covered in slippery mud, they treat this 2 hours as a fucking immaculate historical record that is engraved in titanitum for all of time and it gains this insane level of reverence due to its "certified canon" status

these are the things that only come up when you're talking about the most popular movie series of all time
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Postby Architecture » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:40 pm

shacky wrote:the rt audience score for this dropped overnight from 66% to 59% (rotten)

Compared to Justice League with a 40% critic/80% audience score
try the data then reply
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Postby Bad craziness » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:41 pm

deadbass wrote:
surly wrote:
deadbass wrote:If you really want to get into plot holes, this movie takes place like a week after TFA and the republic is completely gone somehow and the First Order is ascendant in a way that seems uhhh unrealistic. (I don't really want to get into plot holes with Star Wars)

You're aware they blew up the republic's entire fleet in tfa, right?


No, I was not aware (the visual storytelling of that section of TFA is pretty bad), although wookieepedia (ever helpful) suggests that a portion was destroyed, not the entire thing.


the one thing that I do have legit beef with is how much of a hack job the whole Empire-Rebellion-Republic-First Order-Resistance thing is

because it's so obvious that they really just wanted to write a story in the EXACT same Empire-Rebels context as OT and they twisted themselves into whatever narrative pretzel was necessary to justify it
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Postby shacky » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:46 pm

Architecture wrote:
shacky wrote:the rt audience score for this dropped overnight from 66% to 59% (rotten)

Compared to Justice League with a 40% critic/80% audience score


well the more interesting comparison is obv tfa which is 94/88
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Postby deadbass » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:46 pm

the arc of the moral galaxy is long and it bends toward fascism
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Postby Bad craziness » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:49 pm

at the same time I appreciate the need to reflect the times and I totally respect the observation that's been made of "hmmmm, one generation defeats fascism, but then it re-emerges and the next generation has to deal with it...sound familiar?"

I want to believe that they could have done it more gracefully while also avoiding any godawful "senate drama" subplots like in PT
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Postby Gutslab » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:54 pm

"Luke Skywalker projecting a force ghost across the galaxy to fuck with Kylo Ren" is the level of asshole I truly aspire to be.
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Postby r m » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:56 pm

Bad craziness wrote:at this point I really want to know how much was planned for 8 and 9 by the time they had locked the shooting script for 7


Pretty sure there were no plans for 8 and 9 when the script locked. Johnson came on around the time Ford was injured during the TFA shoot. Supposedly his main input was during editing -- he asked Abrams to change some of the stuff in Rey's vision (he may have been mostly/fully responsible for the entire vision, since that scene was originally supposed to be a big flashback montage about Luke's lightsaber and the destruction of his Jedi school, all narrated by Maz).

Most of what we know about Lucas' treatments come from the Art of TFA book, but it's hard to tell what was George and what was Arndt. Rey/Kira being a scavenger is the main thing that carried over. There would have been something about Jedi hunters.
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Postby r m » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:00 am

I just remembered that Chris Terrio is writing IX.

We're doomed!
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Postby buriedinspace » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:05 am

basenjis chortle wrote:post the time of day you saw it and how full the theatre was and what the people next to you were like

1. 10 AM Friday morning
2. Sold out
3. woman to the right of me was pouring vodka into a fountain cup during the previews (and using the cup holder to her left (mine by law))
guy to the left me of me was dressed in slacks and button shirt, tie, that obviously took a very long lunch break. he freaked out when ben and rey teamed up


10:30 Thursday
Sold Out
There was someone who disgustedly asked 'when did THAT happen' about the Miles Morales Spider-Man trailer. Didn't notice much else tho
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Postby surly » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:06 am

I'm extremely mad i didnt get to see that spider-man trailer on the big screen
lordofdiapers wrote:damn it Greedo will forever fuck that word for me
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Postby Bad craziness » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:07 am

yeah I remember browsing through the Art of TFA book and being shocked at how vague the starting premises were

because there are so many novels/comics where a huge amount of narrative structure is meticulously plotted out over a reasonably short period of "writing time"

but film scripts are a such a different animal and film franchises are another animal still, and then there's Star Wars
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Postby KPH » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:13 am

2:25pm. I was one of ~10. So the laugh lines were, uh, well.

I expect I will like this a great deal after subsequent viewings when I adapt to RJ's continued weird pacing issues.
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Postby bigcat » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:14 am

REY/KYLO 4EVER <3
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Postby hbb » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:22 am

reversemigraine wrote:I liked how Luke opted to project himself 20 pounds lighter and with a newly Just for Men'd beard.


Maybe he hadn’t seen himself in a mirror for a while
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Postby endless dave » Sat Dec 16, 2017 12:35 am

hbb wrote:
reversemigraine wrote:I liked how Luke opted to project himself 20 pounds lighter and with a newly Just for Men'd beard.


Maybe he hadn’t seen himself in a mirror for a while


He projected how Ben last saw him
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Postby Bad craziness » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:30 am

it's been less than 20 hours I'm already dying to see it again

looks like my next one is sunday evening

it's shocking how much each new star wars movie sends shockwaves through my emotional body, back and forth between me and my inner 11-year old

I was so into Star Wars when I was younger it'd be admissible as evidence for being on the spectrum
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Postby qmass » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:33 am

I think I liked it?

Extremely messy, but lots of very cool stand-out moments.
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Postby davideotape » Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:37 am

Thats how i feel 24 hrs later. Liked it a lot but it came on a bit too strong. I’ll probably see it 3 more times before it leaves theaters
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Postby Guy Incognito » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:13 am

buriedinspace wrote:
basenjis chortle wrote:post the time of day you saw it and how full the theatre was and what the people next to you were like

1. 10 AM Friday morning
2. Sold out
3. woman to the right of me was pouring vodka into a fountain cup during the previews (and using the cup holder to her left (mine by law))
guy to the left me of me was dressed in slacks and button shirt, tie, that obviously took a very long lunch break. he freaked out when ben and rey teamed up


10:30 Thursday
Sold Out
There was someone who disgustedly asked 'when did THAT happen' about the Miles Morales Spider-Man trailer. Didn't notice much else tho


730pm thursday, half full theater in pierre, south dakota

i sat dead center in the front row with no one behind me for 5 rows and just took plug after plug from of a flask of beam between handfuls of popcorn and cackled aloud by myself at every joke
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Postby Guy Incognito » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:13 am

in retrospect, my personal context may have colored my impression of this film
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Postby surly » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:17 am

have i mentioned that this movie fucking rules
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