What does it mean to die?

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

If you are brain dead, are you dead

Yes
19
41%
No
5
11%
It depends
4
9%
The world is a hologram
4
9%
The world is a vampire
14
30%
 
Total votes : 46

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:51 pm

I can't wait to be dead
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:52 pm

Sorry
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby mcwop23 » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:55 pm

brain dead is dead
Image
wendy wrote:
colin meloy doesn't need to die
User avatar
mcwop23
bitchez ain't shit but pups and licks
 
Posts: 67015
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:56 pm
Location: Jacksonville, FL

Postby Kenny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:58 pm

what does it mean to be alive
Image REAL NAME NO GIMMICKS ImageImage
Never forget, other opinions are available
User avatar
Kenny
"Two Phones" Maccabee
 
Posts: 16160
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:04 am
Location: https://i.imgur.com/YhvNstr.jpg

Postby Kenny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:02 pm

Dr. Norm Thagard wrote:
Kenny wrote:what does it mean to be alive

Alive = a live person or organism


Then dying means when you start decomposing
Image REAL NAME NO GIMMICKS ImageImage
Never forget, other opinions are available
User avatar
Kenny
"Two Phones" Maccabee
 
Posts: 16160
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:04 am
Location: https://i.imgur.com/YhvNstr.jpg

Postby Kenny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:05 pm

a death certificate is just a piece of paper with some scribbles on it
Image REAL NAME NO GIMMICKS ImageImage
Never forget, other opinions are available
User avatar
Kenny
"Two Phones" Maccabee
 
Posts: 16160
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:04 am
Location: https://i.imgur.com/YhvNstr.jpg

Postby Sobieski » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:06 pm

Dr. Norm Thagard wrote:Like in the vampire diaries, most of the people who die come back. But life isn't the vampire diaries.

Isn’t it?
smoke less weed
get more sleep
always tip %20
User avatar
Sobieski
Comptroller
 
Posts: 15335
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:13 am

Postby Kenny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:08 pm

Dr. Norm Thagard wrote:Yeah, but it has legal implications and stuff

My desk is covered in pieces of paper with scribbles that would not stand up in a court of law


We'll if we're talking legal, someone's dead when they have a legal death certificate
Image REAL NAME NO GIMMICKS ImageImage
Never forget, other opinions are available
User avatar
Kenny
"Two Phones" Maccabee
 
Posts: 16160
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:04 am
Location: https://i.imgur.com/YhvNstr.jpg

Postby Sobieski » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:09 pm

Anyways I’m convinced that scientists still don’t know shit about the brain. They’re just poking neurons and dissecting mice brains and making shit up!

They didn’t discover the endo-cannabinoid system until the 1990s, and that seems like an important system to me
smoke less weed
get more sleep
always tip %20
User avatar
Sobieski
Comptroller
 
Posts: 15335
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:13 am

Postby clouds » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:19 pm

that's a terrible story and it's awful that happened and the girl and her family were treated that way and the experience people of color and people in general have in the american healthcare system is saddening

but brain dead is dead
User avatar
clouds
 
Posts: 6093
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:25 pm

Postby clouds » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:24 pm

terry schiavo photoshops was the first hipinion thread i ever saw when it spread across tons of forums
User avatar
clouds
 
Posts: 6093
Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 8:25 pm

Postby minerals » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:29 pm

Nailah said, “I didn’t have a clue. I had really thought that I would get her a feeding tube and a tracheotomy, and she would just get up, and we would be good.”

It honestly seems like the issue here is less the question of whether brain dead is dead, and more that the hospital wasn't forthright with the family about what was happening until after they'd already lost all trust
User avatar
minerals
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:05 pm

Postby Kenny » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:31 pm

"The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness. Although the two are identical twins, man, as a rule, views the prenatal abyss with more calm than the one he is headed for (at some forty-five hundred heartbeats an hour)."
Image REAL NAME NO GIMMICKS ImageImage
Never forget, other opinions are available
User avatar
Kenny
"Two Phones" Maccabee
 
Posts: 16160
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:04 am
Location: https://i.imgur.com/YhvNstr.jpg

Postby donna martin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:38 pm

minerals wrote:
Nailah said, “I didn’t have a clue. I had really thought that I would get her a feeding tube and a tracheotomy, and she would just get up, and we would be good.”

It honestly seems like the issue here is less the question of whether brain dead is dead, and more that the hospital wasn't forthright with the family about what was happening until after they'd already lost all trust


I think both can be true. I think the doctors, nurses, hospital staff, and system overall failed this family horrifically and I can see how they wound up where they have. My heart broke for them when I read this.

I also think it's true there's a lot we don't know about the brain and that brain death as a general concept, in many ways, has a lot of unknowns.

That said, this form of being alive is not something I'd want for myself.
User avatar
donna martin
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:28 pm

Postby chumpchange » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:50 pm

I always tell people if I was brain dead or living on machines I'd want them to pull the plug, but I know if it was a family member instead of me, even if they'd expressed the exact same wishes I'd have an impossible time doing it because of these kinds of questions. Right now I'm watching my dad lose brain function due to an early onset form of dementia, and I've really started to worry about what it's going to be like when the recognizable "him" is gone, and what my relationship to what's left will be.

Like me, he keeps saying he doesn't care what we do with him when it gets to that point, so I guess I understand now where I get that blase attitude from. But the idea of just dumping my demented dad in a home somewhere and washing my hands of it because it's "not really him" just seems unbearably cruel, regardless of how much of him is or isn't left.

I guess brain death is in theory a little easier, because you can say they've crossed a line there's no coming back from, but I'm pretty sure in practice it wouldn't actually be any less difficult.

Anyway, I voted for hologram
chumpchange
 
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:57 pm

Postby blogger status » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:54 pm

it means getting to the next level
ROCK LIFE EVERY NIGHT
User avatar
blogger status
gotta have some faith in the sound
 
Posts: 24239
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: dead inside

Postby minerals » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 pm

A lot of the people in the article are going back and forth on what death is and how to define it, but going from the quotes from the McMath family, it seems like they're doing this out of the genuine belief that she might just wake up at any moment and be fine.
If, at the outset, someone they had reason to trust had given them the same definition of "brain death" that most of us are working with (i.e. it's very hard to define, but not a single person in the history of the world has ever been in this situation and gotten better), things might have been different.
User avatar
minerals
 
Posts: 141
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:05 pm

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:23 pm

Dr. Norm Thagard wrote:Read the article

Done. Very heartbreaking but good article.
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby iambic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:30 pm

minerals wrote:A lot of the people in the article are going back and forth on what death is and how to define it, but going from the quotes from the McMath family, it seems like they're doing this out of the genuine belief that she might just wake up at any moment and be fine.
If, at the outset, someone they had reason to trust had given them the same definition of "brain death" that most of us are working with (i.e. it's very hard to define, but not a single person in the history of the world has ever been in this situation and gotten better), things might have been different.

yeah, this is the heartbreaking thing. Jahi McMath is dead by any definition that describes/embodies human interrelation in this life, and it's deeply sad and debilitating (and maybe even traumatizing) to her family for them to believe otherwise, but it's like no one ever had the kindness/care/capacity to coax them out of this haunted limbo state, and the doctors/nurses thoroughly/wilfully neglected Jahi when she was alive.

I think examining those weird half-light states of death or life is fascinating, but there seems to be no motive for any entity, private or public, to indulge it. because the American medical enterprise is wicked and the world is a vampire.

crushing piece, though. I liked when that one guy said they favored humility over certainty.
Last edited by iambic on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
iambic
 
Posts: 40509
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:47 am

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:35 pm

My thoughts are that they are fighting an unwinnable battle against our garbage healthcare system and the powers that be and it sucks. I don't think she's dead but I also don't think there's really any hope of recovery beyond what she's shown. I dunno, it's an impossibly frustrating situation. I feel like her quality of life is so poor, even though she is alive...I dunno. Basically: ugh.
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby iambic » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:41 pm

iambic wrote:dead by any definition that describes/embodies human interrelation in this life

I mean this is my secular humanist occidentalist whatever belief, but I also think anyone who has a different definition could reach a place where they were resigned to ushering or at least allowing their loved one to move on, rather than wrestling with an insane medical and legal apparatus to keep them in a state where there will never be anything like themselves again.
User avatar
iambic
 
Posts: 40509
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:47 am

Postby fester » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:55 pm

Dr. Norm Thagard wrote: life isn't the vampire diaries.


Image
------------
User avatar
fester
 
Posts: 18659
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:00 pm
Location: probably somewhere dumb

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:52 pm

Is there a reason they didn't sue the original doc for malpractice or did I miss that part
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:05 pm

Fuck
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby donna martin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:08 pm

Dr. Norm Thagard wrote:They are having a hard time because the child is legally dead in California so they can't sue for malpractice, just wrongful death. The article said there is a future trial, no date set, to determine if the child is alive or dead.


yeah, and if i recall correctly, the article noted any payout for wrongful death is far lower than the potential formulas malpractice, which can include long-term care costs.
User avatar
donna martin
 
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:28 pm

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:26 pm

I'm really bad at understanding that stuff and also I find it incredibly troubling so I think my mind purposefully glazes over the minutiae of policy and law so I don't hate everything. Also I'm stupid.
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:29 pm

Like it's insane they had to do a fucking gofundme to move to New Jersey after they did nothing wrong and the hospital basically killed their daughter? Trouble wrapping my head around all that.
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby JohnK » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:35 pm

I didn’t read the article yet (sorry!), but just want to say that dealing with families whose loved one has suffered an anoxic brain injury is easily the worst part of my job.
User avatar
JohnK
 
Posts: 9331
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:26 pm
Location: I'd rather be with you.

Postby antoine » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Dr. Norm Thagard wrote:And that they moved there bc it was one of two states where their daughter could legally "live". She's dead at the federal level and alive at the state level. That's some serious insanity

Directed by Christopher Nolan
User avatar
antoine
 
Posts: 52125
Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:32 pm

Postby chimp » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:26 pm

it's an interesting piece. i guess what's being described here is some recovery from legal brain death to a minimally conscious state. seems like the family received poor care from the start (post-tonsillectomy bleed is a medical emergency and needs to be seen by an ENT doctor urgently, doesn't sound like this happened but the article isn't totally clear). however i don't think that necessarily implies that the hospital was keen to declare this patient dead when really she wasn't. it sounds like she did fulfil the criteria for brain death at least at one time. question for the lawyers i guess.

there are some confusing statements from various people suggesting that someone who is brain dead is a "corpse" that is about to decay. that's just a fundamental misunderstanding of what brain death is and muddies the picture. someone who is brain dead is not rotting, they have lost brain function. the rest of the body can still function (with support). if that weren't true organs could not be transplanted from these people.
User avatar
chimp
 
Posts: 5690
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:32 pm

Next

Return to Mamma Mia... Here We Go Again....

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Adult Contemporary, Alice, Autarch, bear, belgavin, Big Oil, boatwave, brentwurst, Christmas Ape, Clive, crams, DAT TRILL FRIEND FRITZL, fakename, fester, Flossed Out, folkface, fresh, fuckles, fury, Future, goldmatt, goldsoundz, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], grammatron, haddonfield, hyperbole man, i am rich, incoherent grunting, internethandle, jalapeño ranch, Jefferson Zeppelin, Jerry Lundegaard, king ding-a-ling, lights, marble, matte, mothlight, Mr Squishy, mutism, naturemorte, neely o'hara, office plant, patchperfect, Paul, Peter Dinklage, Poptone, potentialgetawaydriver, Rainbow Battle Kid, Robert, seafoam, shoulders technicolor, sideshow raheem, silverapples, Sobieski, Spooky Jim, sultanpepper, techno beats, That Demon Life, turquoise albino, wakeman, wario lopez, WeirdJungle, wildarms, worrywort, yungboi, zach york