Movie Thread re: Movies, Re-retitled :neutral:

Let's talk Aguachile Alley

Postby OKterrific » Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:37 pm

Mrk'smassivehands wrote:Am I right in thinking the guy who writes: http://seul-le-cinema.blogspot.com/ boards here? Pretty sure I picked it up from someone's sig in the past. I've been reading The Conversations via instapaper at work recently, really enjoy them.


I thought it was the guy with the Irma Vep avatar
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Postby quilty » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:41 pm

I'm also more than a little appalled at A.O. Scott (whom I once admired a little) essentially singling out two of my favorite movies of all time—Juventude em marcha and L'annee dernière à Marienbad—as examples of where this totally reactionary viewpoint actually has value.
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Postby Buddy Glass » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:47 pm

Mrk'smassivehands wrote:Am I right in thinking the guy who writes: http://seul-le-cinema.blogspot.com/ boards here? Pretty sure I picked it up from someone's sig in the past. I've been reading The Conversations via instapaper at work recently, really enjoy them.


Yeah that's sevenarts.
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Postby sevenarts » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:53 am

Mrk'smassivehands wrote:Am I right in thinking the guy who writes: http://seul-le-cinema.blogspot.com/ boards here? Pretty sure I picked it up from someone's sig in the past. I've been reading The Conversations via instapaper at work recently, really enjoy them.


Glad you're enjoying the conversations! Thanks.

quilty wrote:It depresses me that this sort of discussion goes on in the New York Times.


Agreed. What depresses me more than anything about this whole affair is how seriously some people are taking Kois. I mean, his argument, such as it is, basically amounts to an admission that if he had his choice, he'd rather not challenge himself with "difficult" art, and that he does so occasionally only because he thinks it's what he ought to do as a paid film critic. It was a totally silly piece and everyone should have said so and promptly went back to ignoring him. Instead, Dargis and Scott both more or less accept his assumptions as givens, and offer only the weakest possible counters. I would have told the guy in no uncertain terms that a big part of the critic's work is and should be to engage with precisely the most difficult art, to dig for its meanings and its merits, or to explore its failings and limits. What else is a critic good for if not to provide a way of thinking about art? Kois' way of thinking about art seems to be as homework.
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Postby patchperfect » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:25 pm

Why are special effects so much worse on Aliens than they are on Alien??

Wasn't it made like seven years later?
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Postby Mesh » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:29 am

So, wait, is there a way to see Film Socialisme with all the words translated, or is that just not done? Is it on KG somewhere?
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Postby Mesh » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:41 am

*double-post clean-up*
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Postby Mesh » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:45 am

sevenarts wrote:
Mrk'smassivehands wrote:Am I right in thinking the guy who writes: http://seul-le-cinema.blogspot.com/ boards here? Pretty sure I picked it up from someone's sig in the past. I've been reading The Conversations via instapaper at work recently, really enjoy them.


Glad you're enjoying the conversations! Thanks.


I was glad to read these (as well as the rest of the Film Socialisme posts):

The subtitles are a kind of passive-aggressive joke on American audiences, because America and its influence is the film's subtext — for the most part, Godard avoids explicitly mentioning America so assiduously that it becomes the unspoken ghost within the film, the driving force for everything that happens, the hidden target of so many of the film's satirical jabs.


The fragmentary dialogue of the film's first part is replaced by lengthier dialogues, which makes the incomplete "Navajo" translation more of an issue: during the cruise ship passage, the Navajo subtitles mirrored the jumpy editing and the collaging of hi-definition digital images with grainy video footage. Here, the subtitles really do feel like out-of-context fragments ripped out of a larger whole, and it becomes even more apparent that Godard intends for language-deficient Americans to understand only incompletely, to be denied the full meaning of the dialogues.
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Postby Mrk'smassivehands » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:36 am

Mesh wrote:So, wait, is there a way to see Film Socialisme with all the words translated, or is that just not done? Is it on KG somewhere?

Yeah, pretty sure I got them off KG. Wish I hadn't watched it with full translations first time round, looking forward to seeing it with Navajo subs second time round (and in a cinema)
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Postby sevenarts » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:33 pm

Mrk'smassivehands wrote:
Mesh wrote:So, wait, is there a way to see Film Socialisme with all the words translated, or is that just not done? Is it on KG somewhere?

Yeah, pretty sure I got them off KG. Wish I hadn't watched it with full translations first time round, looking forward to seeing it with Navajo subs second time round (and in a cinema)


The full subs should be on KG. If you can't find them, Mesh or anyone else who wants them, I'll upload the SRT file later tonight when I get home.

I definitely recommend seeing the film with both the Navajo subs and the full subs. The Navajo subs provide their own layer of meaning to the film, if only in the way they frustrate attempts at understanding and feed into Godard's commentary on Americans, but there's no doubt that it's much easier to get more out of the film after seeing it with a more complete translation.
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Postby ifear » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:39 pm

would you recommend seeing with navajo subs before full subs, then?
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Postby Mesh » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:40 pm

sevenarts wrote:
Mrk'smassivehands wrote:
Mesh wrote:So, wait, is there a way to see Film Socialisme with all the words translated, or is that just not done? Is it on KG somewhere?

Yeah, pretty sure I got them off KG. Wish I hadn't watched it with full translations first time round, looking forward to seeing it with Navajo subs second time round (and in a cinema)


The full subs should be on KG. If you can't find them, Mesh or anyone else who wants them, I'll upload the SRT file later tonight when I get home.

I definitely recommend seeing the film with both the Navajo subs and the full subs. The Navajo subs provide their own layer of meaning to the film, if only in the way they frustrate attempts at understanding and feed into Godard's commentary on Americans, but there's no doubt that it's much easier to get more out of the film after seeing it with a more complete translation.


One of the KG torrent pages links to these: http://0x2620.org/srt/film_socialisme.srt
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Postby Mesh » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:45 pm

ifear wrote:would you recommend seeing with navajo subs before full subs, then?


Despite how much the incomplete subtitling annoyed me and detracted from my experience, I'm sure it'd do the complete opposite for others. It's part of the Godard project anyways. So yeah. Navajo subs first is what I'd vote.
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Postby sevenarts » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:47 pm

ifear wrote:would you recommend seeing with navajo subs before full subs, then?


That's what I did. The first viewing I was dazzled by the imagery but obviously missed a lot, the second viewing (with full subs), things started opening up more and I followed more of the ideas. It's such a dense, baffling film anyway, the first viewing is probably going to be pretty inconclusive no matter which subs you use.

And Mesh, those look like the same full subs that I have.
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Postby Kuboaa » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:48 pm

http://www.avclub.com/articles/a-danger ... hod,57868/

trailer for A Dangerous Method, new David Cronenberg Freud/Jung movie with Viggo, Fassbender and Vincent Cassel
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Postby ifear » Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:55 pm

Mesh wrote:
ifear wrote:would you recommend seeing with navajo subs before full subs, then?


Despite how much the incomplete subtitling annoyed me and detracted from my experience, I'm sure it'd do the complete opposite for others. It's part of the Godard project anyways. So yeah. Navajo subs first is what I'd vote.

ha, well i expect to hate it anyway, so i'm not worrying too much about avoiding annoyance.
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Postby Phil » Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:23 pm

My Film Socialism viewing has gone Navajo > full subs > no subs > full subs > Navajo.

A Dangerous Method is going to be so good.
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Postby quilty » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:04 pm

The Navajo subs strike me more as a statement that stands alongside the film rather than within it. I find it difficult to defend as anything more than a spiteful caprice on Godard's part.

And I can't think of a worse idea than seeing a Godard film that you expect to hate. Viewing-related idea, anyway.
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Postby Phil » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:29 pm

I don't know - the choice of words and the way they're arranged is specific enough that I think calling them a caprice seems unfair. Regardless of how helpful or unhelpful they might be to an English-speaking audience - and making a movie that isn't accommodating to English-speaking audiences is a pretty clear ideological move in and of itself - they frequently work as standalone ideas; off the top of my head there's one where "all movement on a plain surface that is not driven by physical necessity is a spatial affirmation of oneself, be it building an Empire, or tourism" is rendered as "ortourism" (no space), which is an obvious pun and adds another connection to what the actual dialogue is saying.
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Postby quilty » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:17 pm

I think we can level on the fact that they are categorically unhelpful for an English-language audience. They're purposefully alienating and obscuring, first and foremost. The question of whether they bring something new to the film for a bilingual audience, I think, has to be secondary. Of course it's something to talk about, and from a certain perspective it brings something interesting to light (though, for my money and middling French, I'd say it does little more but sheath Godard's thematic hand in an iron glove...); Godard wouldn't be the greatest living artist if he wasn't constantly providing some irritant or other to challenge assumptions about his work. But it's a classic example of something that, for a major portion of Godard's audience, has more interesting implications for conversation about the film that for actually watching the film.

Ignatiy's simpering rebuttals in the ATM clip pretty much sum it up for me: it's a gesture of profound closedness.
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Postby wintergreen » Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:08 am



in case you didn't penetrate kuboaa's link. looks fun.
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Postby Mesh » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:29 am

Hey, what's that time-waster site where it puts two movie posters up and you choose the movie you like more?

edit: it's http://www.flickchart.com/ that shit was hard to google for whatever reason
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Postby Phil » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:43 am

To keep the Film Socialism talk going: Matthew Flanagan with a text-image essay.
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Postby Mesh » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:06 am

I missed the new Thom Andersen short at Gene Siskel last night. Wish that place was a more convenient bike ride for me.

And dammit when does Tabloid open here.
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Postby quilty » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:40 am

Films currently saved on my DVR (swag):
Autumn Sonanta
Dune
Eraserhead
Husbands and Wives
Jackie Brown
The Long Good Friday
Marie Antoinette
The Phantom Carriage
Rancho Notorious
Spirit of the Beehive
Stromboli
Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song
The Secret of the Grain

Because of this setup I've watched:
The Deer Hunter
Wild at Heart
Minnie and Moskowitz
Coffee and Cigarettes

I usually kill one of these a night. What should I watch next?
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Postby Mesh » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:52 am

quilty wrote:Films currently saved on my DVR (swag):
Autumn Sonanta
Dune
Eraserhead
Husbands and Wives
Jackie Brown
The Long Good Friday
Marie Antoinette
The Phantom Carriage
Rancho Notorious
Spirit of the Beehive
Stromboli
Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song
The Secret of the Grain

Because of this setup I've watched:
The Deer Hunter
Wild at Heart
Minnie and Moskowitz
Coffee and Cigarettes

I usually kill one of these a night. What should I watch next?


God dude Jackie Brown is a fucking must if you've never.
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Postby naturemorte » Sat Jun 25, 2011 11:35 am

Mesh wrote:God dude Jackie Brown is a fucking must if you've never.


seconded
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Postby quilty » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:39 pm

Yeah it always looks too long but like what does that even mean right
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Postby Kevin McCallister » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:58 pm

Very much looking forward to A Dangerous Method.

Also I'm pretty glad there's a Canada Post strike otherwise I would have spent money on this already:

Image
http://www.amazon.com/Heathers-Deep-Foc ... 627&sr=1-1
Image
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Postby quilty » Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:47 pm

Resnais' schematic for Last Year at Marienbad (50 years old today) is pretty amazing:
Image

Also Pauline Kael's objections to it were retarded and the more I hear about this woman the more I think she was overblown as a critic.
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