MARVEL® - Ant-y Matters: Pg 356

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
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Postby Bad craziness » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:24 pm

I absolutely adored Andy Serkis in this

fucking lost it at the mixtape bit where he actually told one of his goons to forward him the SoundCloud link holy shit :DToggle Spoiler
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Postby buriedinspace » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:51 pm

From a box office standpoint, this blowing up raises a lot of different questions, both about this franchise and about how Infinity War will perform:

-Current projections for this have the 4 day at 210 but projections have gone up nearly every day this week, rising from seemingly like 150 to the current 210 - does it still have the ability to outperform on Saturday and Sunday? A local theater I went to last night added 4-5 extra screenings the day of and the one I was in sold out that same day. There's CinemaScore data out there saying a third of the audience says they will see it again in theaters. Could Saturday/Sunday perform outsized to expectations?

-What does week 2 look like? Generally, the massive MCU movies (Avengers/Ultron/Civil War/IM3) have done 170-200+ opening weekend and 85-95 2nd weekend, with Avengers outperforming both (270/135) - if BP is in that range week 1, does it outperform the others and show legs (WW opened less strong but it's buzz and cultural significance seemed to power it to having incredible legs and I think it's a reasonable comparison) or is it possible it's phenomenon-ism is going to lead to everyone seeing it Week One and a larger than ordinary drop? I'd bet on the former but I could see the latter basically evening things out

-Avengers vs Infinity War is a fascinating thing to look at, as they seem much more parallel than AoU was to the original. Avengers brought together 3 franchises and a recognizable character (I don't think Hulk could be considered a franchise, as there were no more plans to have him in future non-Avengers films) but only 1 of the franchises was dominant in the market. As such, it sort of played as a giant Iron Man sequel? On the other hand, AoU was just an Avengers sequel, which was good to power it to a big BO but it dropped a bit (which seems like a sort of Star Wars-ian play - the first in the series does huge, the second a little less, third a little less still)

The difference with Infinity War is that it legitimately is putting itself in a position to not only be a third Avengers film (which would probably do very strong BO but perhaps below AoU) but also a sequel to now 4 or more strong franchises: Guardians of the Galaxy (clearly positioned in the trailer), Black Panther (clearly positioned in the trailer), Spider-Man (clearly positioned in the trailer), as well as Thor (coming off the most successful movie in his franchise), Captain America (ditto) and a handful of mini-franchises that played in a similar way to Cap and Thor in the original: Dr. Strange, Ant-Man etc.

I don't think those franchises have radically different audiences but BP raises the question of a much more PoC tinged audience and Spider-Man and GotG certainly have what I would think might not be entirely overlapping audiences - can they bring out all of these potential audiences for IW? If so, how enormous can IW be? I could definitely see it being one of those movies that tests the endurance of the theater system like The Force Awakens did, wherein it's less 'how big a hit can it be?' and more 'what is the high end of the capacity for movie theaters to allow right now'?
Last edited by buriedinspace on Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby buriedinspace » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:59 pm

Also: I liked this but didn't love it. But I was sick as I was watching it, so it may have skewed things.

It was lovely watching it in a tiny theater in the South with a seemingly 85-90% black audience. It was incredibly heartening seeing their reactions to it. Which I feel like could sound condescending somehow? But so many people seemed so legitimately moved and excited and it was a really nice experience.
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Postby davideotape » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:03 pm

Is this the first year where marvels launching 3 mcu films? Maybe it just feels that way because theyre all a few months apart.
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Postby surly » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:06 pm

there were 3 last year!
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Postby Bad craziness » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:20 pm

I love how you did 7 words about the movie itself and then 10,000 words of Box Office Analysis
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Postby buriedinspace » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:29 pm

Bad craziness wrote:I love how you did 7 words about the movie itself and then 10,000 words of Box Office Analysis


I really like Box Office bullshit. Not sure why! And I found the movie very nice looking and well made but it didn't make a giant impression on me but I'm OK about that! Unlike most superhero movies I didn't feel like the target demo, which was nice, honestly!
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Postby Celiac Cruz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:41 pm

this was good! His sister is the best, no surprise there though, younger sisters are basically a staple of scene stealing.

killmonger is right.. maybe in a non-marvel movie that didn't have to have such insane clarity in the good/evil binary they would realize that. also,
daniel kaluuya was such a trump guy lol
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Postby murray st. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:44 pm

kaluuya is the bernie-trump voter
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Postby murray st. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:45 pm

also i don't get why "killmonger was right" has become this like, counter-intuitive hot take. it's the entire point of the movie
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Postby surly » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:45 pm

Celiac Cruz wrote:this was good! His sister is the best, no surprise there though, younger sisters are basically a staple of scene stealing.

killmonger is right.. maybe in a non-marvel movie that didn't have to have such insane clarity in the good/evil binary they would realize that. also,
daniel kaluuya was such a trump guy lol
Toggle Spoiler

they realize it in the movie!!!!Toggle Spoiler
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Postby surly » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:45 pm

friends, i implore you: watch the movie when you're watching the movie
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Postby Celiac Cruz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:50 pm

surly wrote:
Celiac Cruz wrote:this was good! His sister is the best, no surprise there though, younger sisters are basically a staple of scene stealing.

killmonger is right.. maybe in a non-marvel movie that didn't have to have such insane clarity in the good/evil binary they would realize that. also,
daniel kaluuya was such a trump guy lol
Toggle Spoiler

they realize it in the movie!!!!Toggle Spoiler

they do realize it, but he's still a total villain. maybe that's what's necessary for countries to change their perspective on how they should behave towards the outer world, but idk i felt like he was always right in regards to all of his political thoughts, but then they just were like ok we'll still say that he only wants to use their weapons, bc that's the most villainous. though i will admit, most of my film criticism is usually saying something like "they didn't need to do this, it could have been that," but that particular thing is usually the hinge of the plot and it would be foolish to change itToggle Spoiler
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Postby inspectorhound » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:51 pm

and their action upon that realization is ... killing him and taking pity upon the poor oppressed people of the world by buying real estate in their neighborhoods and doling out their wealth/tech as they see fitToggle Spoiler
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Postby inspectorhound » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:52 pm

that said, still the best marvel movie
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Postby murray st. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:53 pm

inspectorhound wrote:and their action upon that realization is ... killing him and taking pity upon the poor oppressed people of the world by buying real estate in their neighborhoods and doling out their wealth/tech as they see fitToggle Spoiler


that's how bloodless, incremental, responsible change happens, inspectorhound, duh
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Postby murray st. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:54 pm

;-*
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Postby Celiac Cruz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:57 pm

killmonger was right shouldn't really be a counter-intuitive hot take, but i guess i did serve it up as one. idk i'm not that used to watching marvel movies, so i guess i just assume that most villains sole desire is to blow up earth or something, having there be a "bad" guy who you can put quotes around "bad" seems like a departure from what i think to be usually very binary films
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Postby surly » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:58 pm

Celiac Cruz wrote:
surly wrote:
Celiac Cruz wrote:this was good! His sister is the best, no surprise there though, younger sisters are basically a staple of scene stealing.

killmonger is right.. maybe in a non-marvel movie that didn't have to have such insane clarity in the good/evil binary they would realize that. also,
daniel kaluuya was such a trump guy lol
Toggle Spoiler

they realize it in the movie!!!!Toggle Spoiler

they do realize it, but he's still a total villain. maybe that's what's necessary for countries to change their perspective on how they should behave towards the outer world, but idk i felt like he was always right in regards to all of his political thoughts, but then they just were like ok we'll still say that he only wants to use their weapons, bc that's the most villainous. though i will admit, most of my film criticism is usually saying something like "they didn't need to do this, it could have been that," but that particular thing is usually the hinge of the plot and it would be foolish to change itToggle Spoiler

maybe the movie puts too fine a point on it, but the reason killmonger is a villain at the end of the movie isn't his political arguments, in my mind. there are three specific points where killmonger tips his hand to show that his goals aren't altruistic, but rather an effort to consolidate power solely for himself: 1, when he orders the magic garden be burned; 2, when he refuses to continue the ritual challenge; and 3, when he stops talking about giving weapons to liberate people and begins to describe it as conquest.Toggle Spoiler
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Postby murray st. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:59 pm

Celiac Cruz wrote:killmonger was right shouldn't really be a counter-intuitive hot take, but i guess i did serve it up as one. idk i'm not that used to watching marvel movies, so i guess i just assume that most villains sole desire is to blow up earth or something, having there be a "bad" guy who you can put quotes around "bad" seems like a departure from what i think to be usually very binary films


i wasn't talking about you specifically my dude it's fine
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Postby surly » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:02 pm

Anyways regardless of where you land on this, its cool as hell that a damn marvel movie is provoking this kind of discussion
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Postby Celiac Cruz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:03 pm

all good, just using your post as a jump off to work out the movie a little more
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Postby davideotape » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:47 pm

surly wrote:maybe the movie puts too fine a point on it, but the reason killmonger is a villain at the end of the movie isn't his political arguments, in my mind. there are three specific points where killmonger tips his hand to show that his goals aren't altruistic, but rather an effort to consolidate power solely for himself: 1, when he orders the magic garden be burned; 2, when he refuses to continue the ritual challenge; and 3, when he stops talking about giving weapons to liberate people and begins to describe it as conquest.Toggle Spoiler


Yeah this was pretty clear and it seemed not very subtle i mean...He chokes a woman into submission because she didnt follow his orders.Toggle Spoiler

Davis Sims tweeted something which aligns to how i took it (unless im misrepresenting or misunderstanding what he said)



Like— killmonger is absolutely right in identifying the problem and how no countries will help, but his manner of solving it is... pretty right-wing America, which is how he was raised and how he was trained (martin freemans describing kilmonger as “one of ours”, shuri greeting ross as “hello colonialist” etc.)

Which is what T’Challas arc is— understanding that killmonger is absolutely right—his father was wrong with isolation and created a hatred in this boy and made things worse. He didnt *want* to kill killmonger, he wanted to save him at the end

I dunno how to square the “buying real estate and doling out tech as they see fit” but i think if youre weighing the solution against literal terrorism... i guess im ducking out of the conversation at this point recognizing myself as a middle aged white dude
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Postby Viola Swamp » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:38 pm

hipinion consensus on killmonger: good guy, bad dude
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Postby Quigley » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:45 pm

All the trailers being superhero movies of varying crapulence, plus Solo, put me in a shitty mood to start but the actual movie won me over immediately. This and Ragnarok are about as good as I expect these movies to get. They both turn partly on fuckup fathers, as did Guardians II now that I think of it. My biggest laugh was maybe Stan Lee taking T'Challa's chips - a deliberate reference to how Stan's a thief?Toggle Spoiler

Did the vertical waterfall challenge set remind anybody else of the Gravel Pit video?
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Postby murray st. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:57 pm

my showing had the MI: fallout trailer which ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed
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Postby surly » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:59 pm

my showing had god's not dead 3

i recognized the main character immediately and laughed through the whole thing while the rest of the theater sat in stunned silence
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Postby WHITEBOYWASTED » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:00 pm

The standard marvel setpiece battles felt so much more intense than usual in this in a way I can't explain. Maybe they felt way more organic? There was nothing as deeply, deeply lame as the airport battle setup in civil war where everyone is just standing on sides and saying "wait but are you dont want to change your opinion???" and then they all have to start from nothing and get up to a full sprint and pair off to fight or whatever. The waterfall battles benefitted from having literally no powers or gadgets at all, too.

This joins Jessica Jones as the only other marvel product where it's cool and good without the (for a marvel movie) part you have to whisper.
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Postby Bad craziness » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:34 pm

buriedinspace wrote:
Bad craziness wrote:I love how you did 7 words about the movie itself and then 10,000 words of Box Office Analysis


I really like Box Office bullshit. Not sure why! And I found the movie very nice looking and well made but it didn't make a giant impression on me but I'm OK about that! Unlike most superhero movies I didn't feel like the target demo, which was nice, honestly!


I should’ve said tone:sincere. Box office stuff is perfectly valid , just a funny contrast

I don’t think it’s condescending to be excited on the behalf of black people who are getting SO much out of this. I found it very heartening so see everyone showing up. (I’m also friends with one of the bald warrior women! So stoked for her)

just replace Obama with Black Panther here

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Postby Hal Jordan » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:24 pm

Cool movie
well that was intense
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