MARVEL® - Ant-y Matters: Pg 356

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

Postby Poptone » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:13 pm

haven't gone to see this yet but all the praise for jordan/killmonger has me very excited; marvel's definitely improved on their prior largest weakness - so-so villains.
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Postby murray st. » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:33 pm

WHITEBOYWASTED wrote:The standard marvel setpiece battles felt so much more intense than usual in this in a way I can't explain. Maybe they felt way more organic? There was nothing as deeply, deeply lame as the airport battle setup in civil war where everyone is just standing on sides and saying "wait but are you dont want to change your opinion???" and then they all have to start from nothing and get up to a full sprint and pair off to fight or whatever. The waterfall battles benefitted from having literally no powers or gadgets at all, too.


this is because coogler is a legit emotional storyteller and not a technician like they tend to hire for these films (no shade to the wonderful technicians who make these fun films that i like) -- if you haven't seen creed watch it ASAP, he uses fight scenes to tell stories about the characters as opposed to just plot advancements
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Postby tgk » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:38 pm

stallone single handedly ruined creed, dude should be banned from acting.
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Postby number none » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:55 pm

very few of the Marvel directors are what I'd called "technicians". I can only think of Alan Taylor, Louis Leterrier, and Joe Johnston. If anything they tend to come from a writing background
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Postby Quigley » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:19 pm

Loved the mini James Bond movie in the middle of BP, like an effortless half hour that shows how great a black and non-misogynist Bond film could be.
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Postby buriedinspace » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:14 pm

Black Panther, as of today, will pass Justice League's entire box office gross. If it was released last year, the total through President's Day weekend would put it as the #10 highest grossing film of the year
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Postby Poptone » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:24 pm

ahahahahahaha
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Postby Bad craziness » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 pm

buriedinspace wrote:Black Panther, as of today, will pass Justice League's entire box office gross. If it was released last year, the total through President's Day weekend would put it as the #10 highest grossing film of the year


first movie in a while that I'm gonna see multiple times just to send a message
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Postby kirito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:49 pm

couple problems i had:

kaluuya's character was off to me. his tribe was responsible for protecting wakanda's border and maintaining the illusion that it's a poor country. he's spent his life maintaining the status quo, he's a friend of t'challa and in a relationship with okoye. it doesn't follow that he chooses to side with a revolutionary and i wish he had a scene that explains it.

the whole "you win the throne via hand to hand combat" thing is such a ridiculous movie conceit and makes no sense for a country so advanced, it would have been far more interesting if mbj had managed to get several tribes on his side in a coup d'etat.
you can still have the waterfall fight if it's just an old tradition that he tries to call in and t'challa goes along with it out of honor.

cgi looked really cheap and dated in a couple of parts. the landscapes and shots of the city were fine, crowd shots looked awful and the final fight on the train tracks looked like it was from 2005.

thought everything else was great! i really enjoyed the scene between jordan and his father in the spirit apartment, didn't expect such a heavy and sad moment involving an mcu villain.
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Postby r m » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:19 pm

buriedinspace wrote:Black Panther, as of today, will pass Justice League's entire box office gross. If it was released last year, the total through President's Day weekend would put it as the #10 highest grossing film of the year


I'm sure Warner Bros. will learn all the right lessons from this experience.
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Postby number none » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:25 pm

somewhere in the bowels of Time Warner HQ, a weary exec is dusting off a moth-eaten Bronze Tiger spec script
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Postby Bad craziness » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:28 pm

reversemigraine wrote:
buriedinspace wrote:Black Panther, as of today, will pass Justice League's entire box office gross. If it was released last year, the total through President's Day weekend would put it as the #10 highest grossing film of the year


I'm sure Warner Bros. will learn all the right lessons from this experience.


to be fair, they've been in full panic since BvS

wikipedia wrote:In May 2016, following criticism of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, Warner Bros. established a DC Films division with Geoff Johns and Warner Bros. executive vice president Jon Berg as its heads, which oversees production to form a cohesive creative direction for the franchise. DC Films will not be fully autonomous, with Johns reporting to DC president Diane Nelson and Berg reporting to Silverman. Charles Roven was also moved from his day-by-day producer role on future DC films, which he had served since 2005's Batman Begins, to an administrative executive producer role. In December, Silverman was ousted from his role in Warner Bros., and Toby Emmerich was promoted to president and chief content officer, in his place. Later in 2016, as part of DC Films Presents: Dawn of the Justice League!, both Geoff Johns and Kevin Smith referred to the franchise's name as being the "Justice League Universe". As of January 2017, Johns and Berg report to Emmerich. Following the financial and critical success of Wonder Woman in June 2017, Johns stated that moving forward the films will focus on the heart, humor, hope, heroics, and optimism of the characters. In December 2017, Berg was announced to be leaving his position in January 2018 and will instead be partnering with Roy Lee.

In January 2018, Walter Hamada was appointed the president of DC Films, replacing Berg.


and The Rock has confirmed the new strategy is "hope, optimism, and fun"

Image
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Postby kirito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:30 pm

number none wrote:somewhere in the bowels of Time Warner HQ, a weary exec is dusting off a moth-eaten Bronze Tiger spec script

superheroooo static shock woop woop!
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Postby davideotape » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:59 pm

kirito wrote:couple problems i had:

kaluuya's character was off to me. his tribe was responsible for protecting wakanda's border and maintaining the illusion that it's a poor country. he's spent his life maintaining the status quo, he's a friend of t'challa and in a relationship with okoye. it doesn't follow that he chooses to side with a revolutionary and i wish he had a scene that explains it.Toggle Spoiler


there are a few steps that get him here.
1. it's exposition-only, but its clear he was never too happy with that "status quo". he has a conversation with t'challa in the beginning that explains his point of view and wants t'challa to be more involved in the state of the world. he already sees t'challa as a "nice guy" which is why...
2. he makes t'challa promise to either kill klau or bring him back so he could kill him. then...
3. when t'challa couldn't get klau, it supported to w'kabi that t'challa is a weak leader who can't execute.
4. kilmonger shows up with klau, starts pitching that he's the leader who can get stuff done, more aligned to the conversation in point 1, and move things in the way he wants them to go. you can tell he's in agreement with kilmonger pretty much the entire time he's taking over so when the conflict comes it felt pretty natural for him to side with the new extreme
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Postby davideotape » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:20 pm

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Postby kirito » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:43 pm

thanks for that dave. after the intro i assumed that mbj would turn out to be from the lost evil mountain tribe and take them over to be his jobber army, i'm glad it was more nuanced and complicated than thatToggle Spoiler
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Postby The Emperor's Son » Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:43 pm

x-post from black panther thread

The Emperor's Son wrote:i think the movie started poorly (the oakland and spy raid scenes were p. badly directed) but the ship righted considerably once we were in wakanda

echoing GS, they should have been way more efficient w/ the claue stuff and got killmonger's challenge to be the end of the first act. would've been better if t'challa had more of a journey back to power, parlaying and brokering power w/ other tribes, training, and learning first hand more about his abilities and the tough decision-making of a king. t'challa kind of just inherits all of these things in the film proper and when against a villain with a more sympathetic backstory and clear, compelling motivation, it doesn't seem like the hero really earns (or even fully expresses) his argument against killmonger. it's also a shame i really don't know black panther's "powers" are, what advantage he has, how he's a uniquely capable hero.

the mcu style of humor is becoming a major liability for these films. so forced and arbitrary and transparent. ruined a lot of fine enough scenes.

also, although definitely more visually imaginative than other marvel stuff, the lack of design point of view is a major miss.

also kind of weird that they make a deal of killmonger body kill marks, yet we don't see any added for the kills he does in the film. definitely seemed like a good, easy moment would have come from adding one after defeating t'challa, and then maybe t'challa "taking it back" during the sunset scene.

i'm very unfamiliar w/ the comic so i recognize that it could just be a case where it mostly takes place in that world, but the finale felt underwhelming and also .. safe? like is it too much to have a movie about a very proud and black nationalistic superhero not attack people that aren't also black? I mean, i get the thesis of the film is sort of a love vs. hate, malcolm x v. mlk jr. as reaction to black nationalism but political optics aside, it also deflated the stakes when contained to a world where we have little scope or understanding.

otherwise, happy for its success. loved the music and the acting was strong and the men were very very very very hot.
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Postby Viola Swamp » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:07 am

i agree that the men were vvvv hot
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Postby tawny frogmouth » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:34 pm

i liked this a lot but the "marvel's masterpiece" reviews i read are a little overblown, i think. it's got the best supporting cast of any solo movie so far, and the political themes weaved into the family backstory are solid, but it doesn't edge out winter soldier or avengers for me. top-tier marvel, though.

moving forward, i'd be interested in the sequels going all-in on the idea of what happens to wakanda when it opens up to the world. beyond just the arms race that would happen with vibranium, and the idea of africa having a superpower to compete with american and china. i never got a sense of what wakanda was like outside of the royal intrigue and the military. does the average wakandan desire isolation? are they going to be open to accepting refugees of civil wars that happen right outside their borders? is t'challa going to continue to be a popular leader for having introduced these problems to the country?

also the soul stone has to be in the vibranium meteor, right? stone powers the metal, metal gets in the plant, plant takes you to the soul realm. it would explain why vibranium is such a crazy element that does whatever the plot needs it to do. might also explain why vision is a unique entity, in that he's powered by the mind stone but has residual soul stone energies in the vibranium body.Toggle Spoiler
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Postby tgk » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:37 pm

tawny frogmouth wrote:
moving forward, i'd be interested in the sequels going all-in on the idea of what happens to wakanda when it opens up to the world. beyond just the arms race that would happen with vibranium,


here's where you introduce dr. doom
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Postby fosse » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:49 pm

tawny frogmouth wrote:the soul stone has to be in the vibranium meteor, right?Toggle Spoiler


IGN wrote:Here’s what Coogler said when we asked him why Black Panther didn’t feature an Infinity Stone.

“I love the Infinity Stones as much as any comic book fan, it’s just Wakanda already has its thing, which is Vibranium. For us, that was special enough, so to throw in something like another special thing didn’t feel right. It felt like we should stick with our one MacGuffin for the country and explore that, let that be the important thing because, frankly we didn’t need to have another piece like that,” Coogler explained, adding, “[Marvel Studios] never really was interested in putting a stone in there, either.”
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Postby tawny frogmouth » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:09 pm

fosse wrote:
tawny frogmouth wrote:the soul stone has to be in the vibranium meteor, right?Toggle Spoiler


IGN wrote:Here’s what Coogler said when we asked him why Black Panther didn’t feature an Infinity Stone.

“I love the Infinity Stones as much as any comic book fan, it’s just Wakanda already has its thing, which is Vibranium. For us, that was special enough, so to throw in something like another special thing didn’t feel right. It felt like we should stick with our one MacGuffin for the country and explore that, let that be the important thing because, frankly we didn’t need to have another piece like that,” Coogler explained, adding, “[Marvel Studios] never really was interested in putting a stone in there, either.”
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i mean if that's the official word, okay. but then vibranium becomes a little too much of a convenient plot device, don't you think? this stuff that is basically just supposed to absorb sound also makes intangible android bodies and transports you to the land of the dead. not like hallucinations either, literal conversations with your dead ancestors who give you information that only they have.
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Postby r m » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:27 pm

tgk wrote:
tawny frogmouth wrote:
moving forward, i'd be interested in the sequels going all-in on the idea of what happens to wakanda when it opens up to the world. beyond just the arms race that would happen with vibranium,


here's where you introduce dr. doom


Anytime I think about Avengers 2 I just get mad that the climax took place in "Sokovia" instead of Latveria. Those Ultron clones shoulda been swarmed by an army of Doombots.

Pretty much every Black Panther story I remember from the late '80s and early '90s had to do with, like, Roxxon and Tony Stark and a bunch of corporate exploitation and arms races and shit. There's an alternate timeline in which BP comes out a lot earlier in the MCU cycle and Iron Man 2 ends up being a more interesting movie because of it.

Wakanda vs. Atlantis / T'Challa vs. Namor was a major storyline through the comics in recent years and I'd be totally fine seeing that happen in a movie down the road.

Hope they avoid the whole T'Challa / Storm marriage shit, though.
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Postby Viz » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:57 pm

Over/under on Wakanda being destroyed at the end of Avengers Infinity? Who do they go to for help, will anyone help them rebuild, what will the rebuilders ask for in return, etc.
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Postby tawny frogmouth » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:23 pm

i could see it being more along the lines of the world watches as this nation in africa they previously thought was a third-world hellhole saves everyone from an alien invasion, and from phase 4 onward, wakanda is the global leader

phase 4: the avengers HQ is in wakanda, and the team is black panther (leader), captain marvel, ant-man, wasp, spider-man, doctor strange. maybe falcon or bucky too. strange teleports people in for meetings and such
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Postby number none » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:47 pm

tawny frogmouth wrote:i mean if that's the official word, okay. but then vibranium becomes a little too much of a convenient plot device, don't you think?


I mean...yeah

that's kind of its whole deal
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Postby Drinky » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:08 pm

reversemigraine wrote:
Wakanda vs. Atlantis / T'Challa vs. Namor was a major storyline through the comics in recent years and I'd be totally fine seeing that happen in a movie down the road.


Yeah this would seem like an obvious choice. And then on a 3rd movie you circle back around to an internal struggle/uprising set in the aftermath that ends in a re-thinking of their archaic form of government, sort of like in the recent comics.
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Postby buriedinspace » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:13 pm

Namor is one of the really weird deals, in terms of rights, as far as I'm aware, though. He may or may not be packaged with FF but I think not?
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Postby number none » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:22 pm

IGN: Finally, there were rumours circulating awhile back that Universal and Legendary Pictures were developing a Sub-Mariner movie, but there was also some confusion about who holds the rights to the character. So could Legendary make that movie at this point?

Feige: No.

IGN: So if a film were to happen it would be you guys making it?

Feige: Yes, but it’s slightly more complicated than that. Let’s put it this way – there are entanglements that make it less easy. There are older contracts that still involve other parties that mean we need to work things out before we move forward on it. As opposed to an Iron Man or any of the Avengers or any of the other Marvel characters where we could just put them in.
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Postby buriedinspace » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:38 pm

Well, maybe it's a Hulk type deal where something like being a BP antagonist would work. Given how well they play off each other in the comics, I'd love to see it
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