Sobriety

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Postby bongo » Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:05 am

under the volcano and a fans notes are the most well articulated portrayals of alcoholism in fiction that i know of
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Postby antoine » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:21 pm

Dawn Running Bear wrote:fucking 2.5 years into this and I'm looking at throwing tossing the meetings and losing my mind

i'm such a loser.

I feel like I just can't help myself and it's inevitable. I'm 2 months out an 8 year relationship and really hurting. I know how to make the hurt go away if only for a minute. I really dig this one girl but I think I already put whatever fire there was out by smothering it. I hate my jobs. I hate 12 step programs. My sponsor is an ass. I'm barely eating and sleeping. It's all just music and books right now

I know the feeling. It usually helps me to think of all the ways alcohol has failed me and those around me. It's not a solution to anything, even though the addicted brain is forever screaming that it is.
Last edited by antoine on Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby antoine » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:23 pm

bongo wrote:under the volcano and a fans notes are the most well articulated portrayals of alcoholism in fiction that i know of

Always wanted to read Leaving Las Vegas
trouble wrote:when you are gonna get married and shopping around
take a minute a think about the posts that were made by antoine
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Postby goldsoundz » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:30 pm

i tried to read under the volcano a few years ago when i was still drinking (with a beer in hand, no doubt) and i couldn't do it. i want to try it again with a sober perspective
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Postby antoine » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:42 pm

goldsoundz wrote:i tried to read under the volcano a few years ago when i was still drinking (with a beer in hand, no doubt) and i couldn't do it.

Why not? Hit too close to home?
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Postby bongo » Sat Sep 30, 2017 6:50 pm

a fans notes hits super close to home for me, or did

a jaded alcoholic community college english teacher losing his mind from booze and one nights stands..
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Postby shacky » Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:19 am

how dumb is it to try do this kinda half assed, for a while anyway? not ideal obv but im seriously somewhere on like an agoraphobic spectrum and until the doctors can figure something out im just not sure it's practical to go cold turkey, it really wouldn't be any kind of life. am i rationalizing? i dunno, the really bad shit really only happens when i don't make any effort to monitor intake (so almost always) but im pretty sure that i can. like, i drink every time we do band prac but never get drunk because i don't wanna play too sloppy. it's never a problem and has only ever been a perfect solution in that one context. could i just apply that to all scenarios, set a numerical limit and so drink just enough to self medicate the anxiety but never actually get fucked up? or am i out of my stupid mind?
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Postby antoine » Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:10 am

shacky wrote:how dumb is it to try do this kinda half assed, for a while anyway? not ideal obv but im seriously somewhere on like an agoraphobic spectrum and until the doctors can figure something out im just not sure it's practical to go cold turkey, it really wouldn't be any kind of life. am i rationalizing? i dunno, the really bad shit really only happens when i don't make any effort to monitor intake (so almost always) but im pretty sure that i can. like, i drink every time we do band prac but never get drunk because i don't wanna play too sloppy. it's never a problem and has only ever been a perfect solution in that one context. could i just apply that to all scenarios, set a numerical limit and so drink just enough to self medicate the anxiety but never actually get fucked up? or am i out of my stupid mind?

i really don't think you'd have success moderating, just judging from what i know of your posts about this subject. thinking this way when one is dependent/addicted to substances is rationalizing, yeah. obviously, i don't know your whole situation but i would consider seeking out some kind of treatment options, be it outpatient or inpatient or just counseling or therapy of some kind. whatever you would be comfortable with. do you have withdrawal symptoms when you don't drink for awhile?

i guess my main point is that i don't think sobriety is out of reach for anyone, even if it seems impossible to live without drinking. 2 years ago i really didn't think i could go even a few weeks without drinking and now i'm over a year sober. i think with some support systems and some kind of treatment in place you could do it, but yeah it would be very difficult/almost impossible just to stop on your own. as far as being in a band and being sober, gold and glass has some experience with that i think.
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Postby shacky » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:32 am

i was afraid you were gonna say that. im going to be seeing a new psychiatrist soon, maybe they'll be able to help with this stuff too.

i don't really experience withdrawal symptoms, nothing extreme. like i did quit cold turkey once before because i had to just lock myself in a room and write assignments for like 6 weeks. i find that like days 3-7 are the hardest and then im basically fine, there's no cravings. it's not so much the not drinking that i find hard as it is trying to then have a social/working life without drinking. it's leaving the house/being around anyone but my girlfriend.

i just mention the band thing as an example of a context in which i do regularly successfully moderate. i dunno, man, i don't think there's gonna be a bigger wake up call than this weekend but at the same time it was also one of the most surreal and insanely fun weekends. i always have the best/worst nights. i dunno how to give that up. but i can be a real mean fucker and my girlfriend shouldn't and can't do this anymore.
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Postby ripersnifle » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:25 am

heading into month 2 here for myself. had a test on Friday night as i went to my first bigger social gathering not drinking.
it was exactly the context in which i would've previously leaned heavily on alcohol - felt preemptively tired heading into this thing, was judging myself to be "socially uncompelling" which i would've previously corrected for chemically, etc. noone pressured me or stigmatized me or anything, which was cool, though one of my closer friends that i have drank pretty heavily with previously wasn't there, which made it easier for me, i guess. i'm still on edge about how to frame this decision to him, as i am anticipating a lot of stigmatization/scrutiny/displeasure. :?

had some pretty good conversations, though i did notice the dynamic of other people being swept away in inebriation, while i was the sober/more coherent interlocutor. i'm sorry, i haven't had time to read the whole thread: have people discussed this here before? how do people deal with that kind of a social context? do you just go early enough to bow out earlier before it happens or something?

i remember all the conversations i had from the night, though, and wasn't paying for anything the next morning. the memory of conversations thing is actually a pretty big motivator for me. at my drunkest moments, perhaps like everyone, i had so many ultimately meaningless/inconsequential conversations with people, often out of social obligation or awkwardness (my abovementioned motivators for commencing drinking almost all the time in the first place), and that kind of conversational ephemerality lost its charm and began to really bother me. it felt completely inauthentic to who i was as a person or my values - this kind of facile, dishonest ability to manufacture obligatory interest in other people, or to treat them as ephemeral/disposable.

ultimately, i really like my sober self and think i can be engaging socially with other people, and that has been such a powerful thing to realize. everything i told myself when commencing drinking for a night about my own social inefficacy, etc, was self-criticism/self-loathing even, feelings of inadequacy that arose out of comparative thinking or some kind of bullshit "extrovert ideal" that i had created to knock myself down in comparison to/with.
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Postby ripersnifle » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:41 am

when i think about my motivations for social drinking, which, thankfully, was 99% of the drinking i was doing, they were all predicated on a self-conception that was "inadequate, uncompelling, uptight, an overthinker, a wallflower, too quiet, inexperienced, not attractive" &c, &c, &c - these were all just veiled ways of stigmatizing who i am naturally, and i can't believe i felt i needed to "correct for" being myself so consistently. thinking about this stuff in a more concerted way has felt good, but also has kind of shocked me a bit to be honest.

anyway, i know month 2 is early in the game here. i just really hope i can keep everything i've thought through in mind the next time i'm being pressured or stigmatized by someone or whatever.
steakspoon wrote:sorry if sounds corny fellas but i'll always remember where i was when i heard my first big star song..the internet
ripersnifle wrote:that aesthetic was tight
worrywort wrote:it's called the temple grandin
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Postby ripersnifle » Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:15 am

the fact that people will stigmatize you, try to reenable you, and/or minimize/trivialize your own independently arrived at reasons for deciding to stop drinking gives you a good window into the pervasive culture of societal addiction that we just let operate according to its own logic, from "functioning" (if that indeed exists, which i am skeptical of, given personal experience with my grandfather and now my mother) to life-annihilating destruction in numerous peoples' everyday lives.

sorry if that's a dark post but im just not looking forward to having to "defend" this choice im making for my own self-determined reasons. how could anyone ever know and then be able to judge the appropriateness of the reasons behind/for my own sobriety?
steakspoon wrote:sorry if sounds corny fellas but i'll always remember where i was when i heard my first big star song..the internet
ripersnifle wrote:that aesthetic was tight
worrywort wrote:it's called the temple grandin
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Postby antoine » Mon Oct 02, 2017 12:55 pm

good posts ripersnifle. i've not even really tried the going to the bar sober thing. i think it would be too triggering or something. But I'd like to try it just because i miss the bar atmosphere sometimes, just a bunch of people being social at the same time. sobriety has been pretty isolating for me. the most i do is meet people for coffee every few weeks or whatever. it's not really enough.
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Postby sleepy_boy » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:38 pm

Feeling those posts ripersnifle, especially the stuff about having a negative conception of yourself that you feel needs correction through alcohol. Been sober 2 months, except for a friends wedding, and I'm still struggling with that. I used alcohol to ease my own self-censorship, because I was too self conscious to express myself sober, but it only allowed me to express a dumbed down version of myself. Now I have to keep reaffirming to myself that what I have to say is interesting to others.
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Postby white mage » Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:43 pm

some version of this might be helpful for people looking to improve their self-conception:

https://tricycle.org/magazine/metta-practice/ - coming up with your own phrases about your own self-worth is very helpful in my experience. feel free to PM if u have q's
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Postby goldsoundz » Mon Oct 02, 2017 2:58 pm

my rules of thumb for social events where everyone else is drinking:

- get there as early as possible to get as much time as possible with people who are still sober or relatively sober
- if i find myself checking my phone 3 times within a ten minute period, i'm not having fun anymore and it's time to leave
- if people are starting to repeat themselves or not make sense it's time to leave
- if people are starting to get loud/overly passionate it's probably time to leave
- i'm not afraid to do an irish goodbye if i think people are going to try to pressure me to stay

i'd say i typically leave somewhere between 10:30 or midnight depending on the event. occasionally it'll be worth hanging around later than that, but i've found generally nothing good happens after midnight
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Postby mascotte » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:49 pm

My general rule: stay home, go for a walk, have a cup of tea, meet with a sober friend. Since I quit drinking I've been to two events where everyone was drunk and it felt really awkward. The smell, the mumblings, the noise, the chaos... It was so familiar and triggering. No reason to repeat that experience anymore, something inside me wanted to jump into it, and alcohol immediately brought back the memories of all my excess cocaine intake in the toilets everywhere around town. I was sick and nauseated.
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Postby ripersnifle » Mon Oct 02, 2017 3:52 pm

goldsoundz wrote:my rules of thumb for social events where everyone else is drinking:

- get there as early as possible to get as much time as possible with people who are still sober or relatively sober
- if i find myself checking my phone 3 times within a ten minute period, i'm not having fun anymore and it's time to leave
- if people are starting to repeat themselves or not make sense it's time to leave
- if people are starting to get loud/overly passionate it's probably time to leave
- i'm not afraid to do an irish goodbye if i think people are going to try to pressure me to stay

i'd say i typically leave somewhere between 10:30 or midnight depending on the event. occasionally it'll be worth hanging around later than that, but i've found generally nothing good happens after midnight
thanks for this. definitely helpful stuff to consider in the future for me.
steakspoon wrote:sorry if sounds corny fellas but i'll always remember where i was when i heard my first big star song..the internet
ripersnifle wrote:that aesthetic was tight
worrywort wrote:it's called the temple grandin
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Postby bongo » Mon Oct 02, 2017 4:00 pm

i still go to drinking heavy things and stay out late (though i havent been since i had a baby)..

its weird, i find im always able to visualize a sort of alternate trajectory where i can see how things would be if i was still drinking in those situations. i can see how itd go - a few drinks turning into that kind of mischievous snowball effect and tunnel vision where i orient myself around the booze, lose track of drinks, maybe sneak some.. ultimately maintaining a veneer of being totally in control 99% of the time but also potentially doing stupid stuff like sneaking a cigarette or fixating on one, saying something regrettable, etc etc

its a very affirming thing ultimately. i know im literally always my better self sober.
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Postby ashtrayheart » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:50 pm

lockheed wrote:
Spoons wrote:Congrats lockheed! That's very motivating.

Can you name some of the Molina songs you were referring to?


man, it's kind of all over his music and imagery.

You see I nailed my guilt to the back of my eyes
So I see it now before the sun
Now who was I, now who am I
Lord what have I done
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Postby Seamus » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:07 pm

on the subject of social drinks i've been framing it to most people as "i don't drink much anymore" when i'm declining drinks; half of me thinks it's a decent enough excuse and people are less likely to try to find out why, but i also see it as leaving a bit of possibility, which i'm uncomfortable with

feeling a lot of posts on this page though. haven't had any issues with social events yet, i've just left earlier. i've got a bachelor party & wedding abroad to attend next year though which are going to be a minefield
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Postby dvr » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:47 pm

my roommate (dorm-room roommate) has been getting hammered every night and crashing around flipping lights on and off. sober he is super courteous and kind. makes me really dislike alcohol right now. stuff is disgusting and makes you stupid
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Postby something sensible if » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:57 pm

Reminds me of this interview with the guitarist from Ceremony, where they're like "I have never met one person who when drunk or high was cooler or more fun to be around." That comment always stuck with me it's so true.
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Postby all of the world » Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:21 am

occasionally when someone learns about my history and they also want to quit drinking/using whatever they ask me how i did it and it's odd to have such a life-changing transformation that i have no way of explaining, even to myself

although sometimes i wonder if i drank and used until it killed the very specific part of my brain that led to that compulsion. i mean that would be kind of funny
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Postby mascotte » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:48 am

Image

Today I was given this drawing during my therapy, we had to choose where we currently are as sobering alcoholics.
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Postby internetfriend » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:02 am

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Image
iambic wrote:no don't make those posts
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Postby mascotte » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:06 am

I'm the guy on the rope
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Postby came to wreck » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:17 pm

thats a chill drawing

my 2nd outpatient stint we had to go around the circle and say where we were on this type of chart that was on the back of our work booklets at the beginning of every group session
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Postby mascotte » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:43 am

came to wreck wrote:thats a chill drawing

my 2nd outpatient stint we had to go around the circle and say where we were on this type of chart that was on the back of our work booklets at the beginning of every group session
Image


Yeah, I was surprised how important are emotions in the recovery process. I didn't recognize anything that happened in my body, from joy to anger, I still, after almost 2 years of therapy, have trouble with coping with unpleasant emotions, my body immediately reacts in an unpredicted (usually defensive) manner.
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Postby mascotte » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:44 am

Double
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