Sobriety

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Postby bongo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:53 pm

last night i had a very booze dominated dream. i was at a huge like, shining hotel style bar and my parents were there and it was some sort of special occasion but i was ignoring them and furtively trying to sneak ipas.

incidentally boarder internethandle was one of the bartenders and i was nervous he was going to see me

i see it as a very shame oriented dream, which is apt
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Postby ripersnifle » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:10 pm

i dunno what i rly want to say about this exactly, but - venting - man it's hard to meet people when you're trying to stay sober.
kind of in this weird situation with my current crush where i'd rly like to move from Friend Hangs to potential evening Date Hangs, and it feels like the world of nightlife dating revolves around drinking to me. there's this kind of shorthand that "let's get drinks!" seems to subcommunicate way easier than like, "let's get tea!" lol
(tho part of the problem i think is that i haven't been entirely forthcoming with her about my current relationship with alcohol :|.)
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Postby goldsoundz » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:38 pm

yeah dating around that is not always easy. you just have to get a little more creative. try activities you might have in common or enjoy together
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Postby mead » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:34 pm

it's strange but i also had a booze dream last night for the first time in a while. my wife and i were seated at a bar and i immediately started sucking down this huge bloody mary that was placed in front of me, before quickly slamming it down, apologizing and feeling guilty enough to wake up.
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Postby internethandle » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:58 am

bongo wrote:last night i had a very booze dominated dream. i was at a huge like, shining hotel style bar and my parents were there and it was some sort of special occasion but i was ignoring them and furtively trying to sneak ipas.

incidentally boarder internethandle was one of the bartenders and i was nervous he was going to see me

i see it as a very shame oriented dream, which is apt


ahaa

reading that arose some memory of my having a dream wherein you and i were taking drags on reds at one point and solemnly nodding at each other saying the reds were "so good, man," which i'm pretty sure happened irl while smashed, probably at lb's

i hadn't really realized it, but booze dreams occurred for me at a semi-regular clip for about the first year of sobriety, and then sort of precipitously dropped in frequency after that. i can't remember the last time i had one. they were all invariably about how guilty i felt though, yeah, with every one of them including my parents in some fashion (who were definitely the most impacted by my alcoholism, especially my two DUI's in my twenties)
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Postby bongo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:54 am

pretty sure we chainsmoked reds after pounding in n out at lb's yeah
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Postby bongo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:45 pm

hearing coworkers whisper and chuckle about idiotic drunken transgressions on a monday is a great sobriety affirmation
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Postby Cone » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:51 pm

The longer I go without drinking, the more bewildered I become by the concept of drinking culture and the appeal of it in the first place. Like the hardest part of getting and staying sober for me is just the fact that I don't want people to know I've decided to stop putting this toxic liquid into my body. That's insane.

But I also have accepted that I don't care to read into it or unearth all the underlying answers of alcoholism to a point because I don't want to waste all my time meditating on negative stuff.
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Postby bongo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:54 pm

do any of you guys ever think much about problem drinking vs alcoholism? im not sure i entirely grasp the distinction and id like to learn more

theres a part of my brain that still tells me that im a problem drinker who could learn moderation but, at least as of right now, i understand that as the "how can i drink again" excuse making of alcoholic tendencies

idk
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Postby goldsoundz » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:06 pm

i don't really buy into "alcoholism" as this finite thing. more like a spectrum of problem drinking where there's no fine dividing line between the two

this blog post articulates my perspective on the term alcoholic pretty well http://www.hipsobriety.com/home/2014/12 ... -no-one-is
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Postby bongo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:07 pm

goldsoundz wrote:i don't really buy into "alcoholism" as this finite thing. more like a spectrum of problem drinking where there's no fine dividing line between the two


yeah this is how i feel too
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Postby nonchalant » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:14 pm

I don't know, I don't really buy that blog post

like, I have a severe physiological reaction (or allergy I guess you could call it) to alcohol where if I start drinking, I simply cannot stop until I pass out. I mean I can sometimes with real exertion, but it's horrible and hell on earth and brutal. it's really not a matter of willpower

like the very first bulletpoint, ""NO body has a body that is meant to handle alcohol." I mean sure if you want to get cute and technical about it, but that's not helpful when I can clearly make a distinction between my friends who can have a single beer or two and call it a night without any active thought about it, and the kind of reactions I used to have
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Postby goldsoundz » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:25 pm

i mean it's just more that the term is problematic (and outdated) in how it labels and stigmatizes. i don't think anyone is going to argue against some people having a much more severe reaction with alcohol than others
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Postby nonchalant » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:37 pm

I get where it's coming from, I guess for me I've never really been stigmatized by it, so I just don't care as much about how its labeled or what its named. it's just a matter of fact thing for me, like my eye color or right-handedness.
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Postby Cone » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:44 pm

Obviously alcoholism or alcohol dependency or problem drinking or whatever you want to call it has varying degrees which come with their own set of triggers and extents.

But I do believe that the one finite solution is to stop drinking and the moderation thing will always end in you reverting back to the things you did that made you realize it was an issue in the first place.

Like sure you don't get embarrassingly drunk and make bad decisions every time you drink and sometimes you're able to moderate and still have a good time. But ultimately if you roll the dice enough times you're going to end up back where you were in the first place and not be proud of yourself.
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Postby southpaw » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:44 pm

Cone wrote:The longer I go without drinking, the more bewildered I become by the concept of drinking culture and the appeal of it in the first place. Like the hardest part of getting and staying sober for me is just the fact that I don't want people to know I've decided to stop putting this toxic liquid into my body. That's insane.

But I also have accepted that I don't care to read into it or unearth all the underlying answers of alcoholism to a point because I don't want to waste all my time meditating on negative stuff.


Have you read Susan Cheevers book on the secret history of America's drunkenness, Drinking in America? I highly recommend it. Deals with this in a powerfully sober (ing) voice.
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Postby came to wreck » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:46 pm

word policing the term alcoholic
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Postby Cone » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:48 pm

southpaw wrote:
Cone wrote:The longer I go without drinking, the more bewildered I become by the concept of drinking culture and the appeal of it in the first place. Like the hardest part of getting and staying sober for me is just the fact that I don't want people to know I've decided to stop putting this toxic liquid into my body. That's insane.

But I also have accepted that I don't care to read into it or unearth all the underlying answers of alcoholism to a point because I don't want to waste all my time meditating on negative stuff.


Have you read Susan Cheevers book on the secret history of America's drunkenness, Drinking in America? I highly recommend it. Deals with this in a powerfully sober (ing) voice.


I'll make a note to find it, thanks!

Ever since my decision to get sober I have been given/pointed to a heaping stack of literature that I really need to get cracking on
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Postby nonchalant » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:50 pm

southpaw wrote:
Cone wrote:The longer I go without drinking, the more bewildered I become by the concept of drinking culture and the appeal of it in the first place. Like the hardest part of getting and staying sober for me is just the fact that I don't want people to know I've decided to stop putting this toxic liquid into my body. That's insane.

But I also have accepted that I don't care to read into it or unearth all the underlying answers of alcoholism to a point because I don't want to waste all my time meditating on negative stuff.


Have you read Susan Cheevers book on the secret history of America's drunkenness, Drinking in America? I highly recommend it. Deals with this in a powerfully sober (ing) voice.


I have such a long reading list to catch up on, but this looks great, thank you. I just reserved a copy at B&N to pick up later tonight.
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Postby milknight » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:08 pm

im gonna try this, at least for a month
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Postby The Emperor's Son » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:45 pm

tbh i don't think problem drinker or bad drinker is less stigmatizing than alcoholic
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Postby milknight » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:46 pm

Sorry if “im gonnna quit for at least a month” isnt cool to post in here i can take it somewhere else just thought having it written on the internet would help
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Postby The Emperor's Son » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:49 pm

my ambivalence and at most bafflement w/ drinking culture sunk the already low-ranking UK to pretty much the bottom re: places i want to visit
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Postby The Emperor's Son » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:50 pm

milknight wrote:Sorry if “im gonnna quit for at least a month” isnt cool to post in here i can take it somewhere else just thought having it written on the internet would help

you're good

:)
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Postby bear » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:51 pm

it's been my experience that once you turn into a pickle, you can never be a cucumber again.

that's at least true for people who use hard drugs. I've never known anyone to dabble again after going through a serious period of addiction.

I wonder what the stats are on people who use softer drugs after using harder drugs. the NA lore is that they eventually go back to their drug of choice, but I dunno if that's backed up by data.

but anyway, is it really worth the risk of finding out if you can drink again? for me, relapsing has been like unleashing a monster. I go harder and further than I went before, almost instantly. but another perspective is that .. what's the benefit of drinking? why bother? isn't your life better now?

as for the semantics .. I don't know. I don't think it really matters? all that matters is: do you think you can drink again? if so, are the possible consequences worth it if you're wrong?

according to AA, if you can't control your drinking, and if alcohol makes your life unmanageable, you're an alcoholic.

if you do feel uncomfortable with the label, one easy compromise is to use the term alcoholic if you're in a meeting out of respect, and say you have a problem drinking to other people. I think this is fine. there's a different meaning to the term inside the rooms than there is to the outside world. there are a lot of preconceptions that just aren't true, and people in AA understand that.

and by the way, I do recommend going to meetings. it's basically group therapy, and it rules. it's not really about quitting drinking. it's more about becoming a better person.

personally I do say "I've had issues with substance abuse in the past" to people outside the rooms. but I also don' t have a problem identifying as an addict if it comes up that way. I think that the label is easier for me to accept, because there's no doubt that someone who injects heroin and cocaine into their body is an addict. but alcohol is socially acceptable, and some people manage to drink successfully, so it's not as clear, maybe..

hope I didn't come across as belligerent here! just adding my thoughts.
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Postby bongo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:56 pm

good post bear
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Postby The Emperor's Son » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:04 pm

my go-to answer for new people who ask "you don't drink?" is "i've had my fill"
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Postby bongo » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:04 pm

thats good

i say "yeah i quit drinking because it was making me a dumber person"
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Postby Cone » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:31 am

I missed my usual Saturday meeting for the past two weeks due to schedule conflicts and I relapsed yesterday. Go figure.

I actually feel positive about it just because of the immediate sense of guilt I felt and how quickly I realized that I was making a big mistake.

I’m definitely embarrassed to be starting from scratch again after all I’d learned over the past month and a half but I guess it’s just another experience to take away a new lesson from.
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Postby Cone » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:40 am

Well I really wish I had read that bear post before grabbing a bottle yesterday
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