Sobriety

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Postby mascotte » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:48 pm

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Postby goldsoundz » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:13 pm

yeah i liked it. this quote especially:

"This is the scariest part of being a blackout drinker: not the inability to remember, the fear that someone else does. The worst thing you can do to a blackout drinker is tell them the truth."
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Postby bongo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:28 pm

gonna read that now

highly recommend the jamison book "the recovering" - it's resonating with me a lot.

anyone read the lost weekend? sounds up my alley (read "alley" as whatever genre it is that makes you feel incredibly grateful that you quit drinking and includes under the volcano and a fan's notes)
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Postby mooncalf » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:00 pm

goldsoundz wrote:yeah i liked it. this quote especially:

"This is the scariest part of being a blackout drinker: not the inability to remember, the fear that someone else does. The worst thing you can do to a blackout drinker is tell them the truth."


I totally relate to that quote. I used to wake up in a terror about the (true) things I might have told people the night before. Reminds me of this passage from the Big Book (pg 73), which has always resonated with me:

"More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. To the outer world he presents his stage character. This is the one he likes his fellows to see. He wants to enjoy a certain reputation, but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve it.

"The inconsistency is made worse by the things he does on his sprees. Coming to his senses, he is revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare. He trembles to think someone might have observed him. As fast as he can, he pushes these memories far inside himself. He hopes they will never see the light of day. He is under constant fear and tension - that makes for more drinking."
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Postby Cone » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:18 pm

It’s so surreal whenever somebody will point me to a passage in the Big Book that was written like 70 years ago or so (with later revisions of course) and it’ll just be so relatable that it’s kinda scary.

Like I think at the second meeting I ever attended, somebody read out the passage that lists off all the ways an alcoholic tries to control or change their drinking habits and it just described my experience to a T
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Postby something sensible if » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:28 am

mooncalf wrote:
goldsoundz wrote:yeah i liked it. this quote especially:

"This is the scariest part of being a blackout drinker: not the inability to remember, the fear that someone else does. The worst thing you can do to a blackout drinker is tell them the truth."


I totally relate to that quote. I used to wake up in a terror about the (true) things I might have told people the night before. Reminds me of this passage from the Big Book (pg 73), which has always resonated with me:

"More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. To the outer world he presents his stage character. This is the one he likes his fellows to see. He wants to enjoy a certain reputation, but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve it.

"The inconsistency is made worse by the things he does on his sprees. Coming to his senses, he is revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare. He trembles to think someone might have observed him. As fast as he can, he pushes these memories far inside himself. He hopes they will never see the light of day. He is under constant fear and tension - that makes for more drinking."

This seems to describe the thing my friends and I referred to as "the shame monster". I would wake up and then start remembering things I did and it was just terrible wondering how other people perceived me. I don't think anyone really knew how bad this was for me.

Also it was one of the first epiphanies I had that my relationship/addiction to alcohol was not so much to do with the joy I got from drinking it, it was more about how I felt about myself and probably how I thought other people understood me, even as I was pretty hell bent on rejecting normalcy and normal behavior. "Fear and tension" is basically how I existed while I was sober and for some reason drinking was critical to alleviating that tension and letting me be myself, although the mechanisms by which it did that for me every weekend are still sorta weird to me. Why did I keep drinking if it was causing problems? I can't really say for sure what was propelling me.

I feel like a good example of this is how I used to talk to women I was interested in. I would be deliberately hard to connect with, maybe even to the point of mocking like the usual first steps of getting to know someone you like, because the way I really felt was that I "knew" that if I was myself I would be immediately rejected and discarded. Idk if I explained that right. But definitely a huge part of becoming sober was/is observing that there is something like amazing and pure and courageous about being honest about who I am. I wonder if above all else that's all I can really do to live my best life and get the most I can out of this experience.

But still, years later, sometimes I am just like, wow I am a huge piece of shit. I just got another job so I'll be seeing a psychologist again soon to hopefully talk through some of that sorta stuff.
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Postby The Emperor's Son » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:55 am

while i was still in the throes pre-sobrierty infinite jest made me straight up bawl
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 9:58 am

hows everyone doing?

i think the recovering by leslie jamison is actually a very important book, im getting a lot out of it. granted its my first expressly recovery read but the way it juxtaposes traditional recovery narrative with exploratory biography and critical analysis of the form of "recovery book" (and all its trappings and associated cliches) is really quite remarkable. i recommend it highly.
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 10:03 am

one recent thing ive been thinking about is how amazing it is to actually be excited about doing things and exploring the world as an end in and of itself. perhaps this seems obvious or inarticulate but for me for so long everything hinged on drinking, drinking was the most important and/or decisive factor in whether id go do something (making sure i had enough quantity, would be able to drink enough, trying to manage/balance my drunk with respect to the social/familial/life demands in context) . all of this seems so sad now. the booze didnt light up those experiences with the ecstatic glow i thought it did, it dulled things and made my experience of them inauthentic and shot through with (sometimes quite a lot of) absence

anyway, heres to experiencing things raw and ragged and fully
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 10:04 am

also - ctw, other people who strike me as more versed in recovery lit - what are some titles that have been valuable to you?

i am interested in john berrymans "the recovery" right now, may pick that up next
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 10:04 am

bongo wrote:one recent thing ive been thinking about is how amazing it is to actually be excited about doing things and exploring the world as an end in and of itself. perhaps this seems obvious or inarticulate but for me for so long everything hinged on drinking, drinking was the most important and/or decisive factor in whether id go do something (making sure i had enough quantity, would be able to drink enough, trying to manage/balance my drunk with respect to the social/familial/life demands in context) . all of this seems so sad now. the booze didnt light up those experiences with the ecstatic glow i thought it did, it dulled things and made my experience of them inauthentic and shot through with (sometimes quite a lot of) absence

anyway, heres to experiencing things raw and ragged and fully


silly but i dont want this buried at the bototm of a page
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Postby came to wreck » Fri May 11, 2018 1:07 pm

tbh i havent read much recovery lit. i read the 12 and 12 and big book to do the steps so i know of those. some ppl like the aa "daily reflections" cause you can just read the small reading for the day and its chill. ppl in the rooms like to namedrop chuck c's "a new pair of glasses" but ive never read it myself. ive liked reading an autobiography or mostly listening to a podcast interview with someone who happens to be sober cause its kind of like hearing them qualify, especially if theyre on WTF since he is sober as well. i guess i mostly just go to mtgs a few times a wk to get my recovery fix. thru the years ive been lucky to have heard some insanely good speakers at mtgs.
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Postby gold and glass » Fri May 11, 2018 1:41 pm

was this posted in here? it's v good

https://medium.com/s/unrulybodies/the-b ... 2e2d2ac86d
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Postby internethandle » Fri May 11, 2018 1:53 pm

bongo wrote:
i am interested in john berrymans "the recovery" right now, may pick that up next


this seems like it would be a harrowing read. also interested, though!
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Postby antoine » Fri May 11, 2018 1:59 pm

gold and glass wrote:was this posted in here? it's v good

https://medium.com/s/unrulybodies/the-b ... 2e2d2ac86d

I liked this. Thanks.
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Postby boost » Fri May 11, 2018 2:04 pm

whats this recovery lit thing about because i thought recovery meant you had to stop getting lit? I'd probably check out a recovery if it was lit.
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Postby goldsoundz » Fri May 11, 2018 2:04 pm

re: recovery lit - big fan of anything sarah hepola, especially her memoir from a few years ago "blackout"
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 2:10 pm

oh right i think i actually have an epub of blackout. will check that out next ty for the reminder
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Postby mead » Fri May 11, 2018 2:18 pm

i identify hugely with that post bingo
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 2:19 pm

:) glad to hear that
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 2:20 pm

and i feel identified by... chuck palahniuk??

Image
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 2:24 pm

oh and also thanks for that link g&g thats a good piece
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 2:26 pm

god that palahniuk quote gives me a gutpunch shame memory of always being the one who was like, blasting through expensive bottles of rare beer and constantly filling up everyones little taster glass and trying to get to the next bottle, all the while drinking heavily from the growler of double ipa or whatever id brought for myself to supplement the actual tasting going on
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Postby goldsoundz » Fri May 11, 2018 2:34 pm

yeah that's a good read. fave quote:

The more you drink, the more you become defined by the drink, the more you look like a drink and smell like a drink and behave like a drink. In a blackout, this effect reaches its apex — you leave your body completely, and the drink is finally left to move unaccompanied through the world.
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Postby antoine » Fri May 11, 2018 2:36 pm

goldsoundz wrote:yeah that's a good read. fave quote:

The more you drink, the more you become defined by the drink, the more you look like a drink and smell like a drink and behave like a drink. In a blackout, this effect reaches its apex — you leave your body completely, and the drink is finally left to move unaccompanied through the world.

Yeah this stood out to me too
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Postby RIXX » Fri May 11, 2018 2:38 pm

yeah that quote really kinda creeped me out, thinking about all the times I was blacked out among friends and just moving and acting totally unconsciously, it was the drink moving alone in the world. like those zombie ants that move around and operate while their brains are infected by a parasitic fungus
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Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 3:10 pm

yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
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Postby bear » Fri May 11, 2018 3:39 pm

this book of poetry by a former addict mother mourning the overdose of her addict son was heart-breaking:
http://www.autumnhouse.org/product/small-door-death-sheryl-st-germain/
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Postby RIXX » Fri May 11, 2018 3:59 pm

I remember enjoying this a couple years ago

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Postby dvr » Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

bongo wrote:oh right i think i actually have an epub of blackout. will check that out next ty for the reminder


I liked blackout
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