Sobriety

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

Postby RIXX » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 am

that looks great- i'm gonna order it, thanks

i feel like i read a new yorker profile on leslie jamison last year or something and I was really anticipating The Recovering but I totally forgot about it
User avatar
RIXX
 
Posts: 3974
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:08 pm
Location: nonchalant

Postby bongo » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:00 am

RIXX wrote:that looks great- i'm gonna order it, thanks

i feel like i read a new yorker profile on leslie jamison last year or something and I was really anticipating The Recovering but I totally forgot about it


epub in the ebook thread fyi
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
User avatar
bongo
man in hammock
 
Posts: 67389
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 pm
Location: Malaise (Live Acoustic)

Postby RIXX » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:21 am

amazing thanks :) downloading now

i think i'll start reading it with my kindle and then order the hardcover if i'm into it
User avatar
RIXX
 
Posts: 3974
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 12:08 pm
Location: nonchalant

Postby Jerry Lundegaard » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:15 pm

Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:this thread is always inspiring, and congrats to everyone who's recently been taking the plunge. i'm coming on 15 months without booze.

my next thing needs to be iphone addiction. not checking twitter or email or insta every second i'm not doing anything. might try to get more involved with meditation which i like to think will help that.


my suggestion is to delete insta/twitter from your phone. maybe just for a week and see how it goes.
User avatar
Jerry Lundegaard
 
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: ill

Postby came to wreck » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:27 am

or use the phone addiction to your advantage and get addicted to a meditation app. some ppl i know use "insight timer" which has guided meditations and a lot of other features.
User avatar
came to wreck
 
Posts: 10679
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:50 pm

Postby bear » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:01 am

insight timer is pretty sick, i love their bell sounds
User avatar
bear
good bear
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:32 am

Postby Sports Fan of the Year » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:47 am

It's been (I think, one symptom of my alcoholism was that days, weeks and even months tend to blur together) a couple of weeks since I had a drink and I'm definitely 100% determined to stick with it this time, especially since I've told all my close friends and relatives and I have their full support, but man, my nerves feel completely shattered and I'm getting insane anxiety that's mostly manifesting itself in the form of constantly worrying about things that are so incredibly illogical I'd be embarrassed to type them out here. Despite this I feel absolutely no temptation to drink or go back to any other substances and I just know that if I can make it to the end of the World Cup then the benefits will be so incredibly clear that I'll be able to stick to it forever. Sorry, I'm rambling. Stay strong everyone!
mites wrote:I'm a factory where every input is pizza and every output is depression
User avatar
Sports Fan of the Year
 
Posts: 7185
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:59 am
Location: Bristol, England.

Postby bear » Tue Apr 24, 2018 11:25 am

I will say that the resolution to not drink, ime, is often not enough. it can be very strong in the beginning, but fades in time. behavioral change is required. that could be going to meetings, going to therapy, finding alternative hobbies, practicing meditation, exercising -- or some combination.
User avatar
bear
good bear
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:32 am

Postby something sensible if » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:02 pm

when i quit i basically decided do or die under no circumstances ever at all in any universe of situations would i ever drink under any circumstances whatsoever no matter what happens. and like, i feel that pretty much everything in my life changed around me quitting drinking. like it had to be the fuckin bunker in the hurricane.

like its never happened but if someone persistently pressed me to drink i would probably punch them in the face
something sensible if
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:20 am

Postby bongo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:10 pm

i am proud to not drink
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
User avatar
bongo
man in hammock
 
Posts: 67389
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 pm
Location: Malaise (Live Acoustic)

Postby Jerry Lundegaard » Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:15 pm

yeah i think it is really helpful to channel that energy into another activity. distract yourself from your non-drinking with something else.

Stick with it Sports Fan, it gets easier as time goes on!
User avatar
Jerry Lundegaard
 
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: ill

Postby bongo » Tue Apr 24, 2018 3:09 pm

a good thing to keep in mind is that drinking is completely pedestrian and lame and only serves to blunt experience and cheat you out of authentically experiences raw Life
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
User avatar
bongo
man in hammock
 
Posts: 67389
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 pm
Location: Malaise (Live Acoustic)

Postby Sports Fan of the Year » Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:57 pm

bear wrote:I will say that the resolution to not drink, ime, is often not enough. it can be very strong in the beginning, but fades in time. behavioral change is required. that could be going to meetings, going to therapy, finding alternative hobbies, practicing meditation, exercising -- or some combination.


This all sounds very sensible. Glad to have a gym membership now and I suppose meetings aren't out of the question. Cheers.
mites wrote:I'm a factory where every input is pizza and every output is depression
User avatar
Sports Fan of the Year
 
Posts: 7185
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:59 am
Location: Bristol, England.

Postby j-ol » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:32 pm

bongo wrote:question: has anyone who is versed in recovery/sobriety literature read the new leslie jamison yet? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35959632-the-recovering

im reading it now and i think its quite good for what it is. certainly feels very relevant to me as someone with a background in creative writing and, more to the point, a person who once tacitly subscribed to a john barleycorn 'white logic'/sagelike drunk bullshit

im curious though how this book will sit with the aa community as it posits itself as a different sort of recovery narrative and i imagine may be divisive


haven't read it but looks good.

https://www.thefix.com/recovering-inter ... ie-jamison

currently working my way through anne fletcher's inside rehab. would recommend to anyone who's not familiar with the treatment/recovery scene but is planning to enter inpatient or outpatient, knows someone who needs help, or aims to work in these settings someday.
User avatar
j-ol
 
Posts: 5366
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:22 pm

Postby milknight » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:35 pm

i think i need to stop smoking weed now. i dont really feel "sober" anymore even though i think i havent drank in like 4 months now (with the exception of a night on vacation in mexico city, that was mostly fine but also a good reminder why i stopped) and i think its because im constantly stoned again now. im not sure hopw i fell back into this. i guess its not a huge deal but i thinnk im gonna try quitting again after this bags gone. its not hard for me to not drink its hard for me to be sober im realizing.
User avatar
milknight
 
Posts: 13236
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:06 pm

Postby Jerry Lundegaard » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:12 pm

OK SO

I would like to take mushrooms for my 30th birthday in August but I am worried that this will compromise the integrity of my sobriety. Like it would add an asterisk to what will be two years at the end of july. so like I am torn because for one i want to celebrate and i think this might be a fun way, but also i might just be like "gimme a damn cigarette!" and end up hooked on nicotine again. which i dont want. but otoh this might be a fun way to enter my fourth decade.

what do you guys think?
User avatar
Jerry Lundegaard
 
Posts: 1942
Joined: Wed May 05, 2010 10:22 pm
Location: ill

Postby Cone » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:33 pm

I think it ultimately comes down to the latter part of risking being triggered into a full-on relapse. As far as the “integrity of sobriety” part, I totally get that and have been thinking on that concept myself.

The other day after 90 consecutive days of sobriety I stupidly convinced myself that it would be okay for me to have a couple drinks and I immediately regretted it. I didn’t do anything dangerous or spiral into a bender or anything but it still sucks to reset my counter at zero. But at the same time I think of it not as starting back at the beginning but instead as me just deviating off my path of sobriety for a moment.

I still have all the knowledge and wisdom I’ve acquired throughout my sobriety so far and even though I had a stupid lapse of judgement, I was at least aware enough to stop myself before I did anything worse.
User avatar
Cone
 
Posts: 13006
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:58 am

Postby came to wreck » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:54 pm

i've often thought how it would be cool to take shrooms or acid again after being sober awhile, to trip like once a year and have a nice reflective time to think about my life and a new perspective etc so the desire to do that for a 30th birthday makes total sense to me. but also for myself if i play that tape forward, and try to think what will happen after i trip, like the next day or next week and how i could have easily gotten the ball rolling and awakened the urge to drink and will probably then start to crave a drink more than i have in a really long time. idk how i would be able to deal with that and not take my trip as an excuse to keep the party going and not to completely fall into drinking and using again. also idk how you used to trip, everyone is different with their relationship to certain drugs/chemicals/substances, but my relationship with tripping was very much a part of partying and wanting to escape and get fucked up. i know other ppl legitimately use tripping for theraputic reasons and even to get off drugs and overcome addiction but thats def not how i tripped back in the day so for me to try to twist it now as a way i can simply gain insight as some sort of self-realization tool is bullshit if i really consider it thoughtfully. if i give it enough room my mind can very easily start to rationalize anything no matter how detrimental i know it will be to me in the end. from getting sober i've been able to rebuild my life and come out from my bottom and now have a life i really love and know i wouldn't have if i didn't ever get sober and i guess the real question for me is doing acid one more time really worth losing all i have now. cause i know the way i drank and used i def would lose my job, friends, gf, support of my family, mental wellbeing, money etc very quickly if i started back up again and of course it could be even worse where i get to the place of perhaps being homeless or in jail or dead. so thats how i think about tripping when i have thoughts of doing it again from time to time. perhaps for you its different though, ppl in your life who know you would probably be better to offer advice. also there is the whole way of talking about it from a program perspective but idk if you go to mtgs so im not gonna bring any of that up right now. certain ppl in mtgs love bringing up how bill w did acid though and that brings up interesting debates about it within program circles.
User avatar
came to wreck
 
Posts: 10679
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:50 pm

Postby bear » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:24 pm

i've considered this too .. like, not that soon, but maybe after 20 years, it seems probable that i could take LSD again and not go into full relapse mode. but ultimately, i don't think i will, because:

1) is it really worth the risk? even if it's a low risk, that life was just so awful. it's not that important to trip.
2) the nagging feeling that i'm relapsing would not be conducive to a good trip anyway, so why bother

so the approach i'm taking is to seek out sober things that can provide those sorts of experiences. long distance running, or meditation, or skydiving, or jumping into really cold water, or super long hikes, I dunno. a big theme of my recovery has been realizing all the things life has to offer that i was simply ignoring. you've already tried tripping -- why not try to find something else deeply meaningful that is more aligned with your current goals and lifestyle?
User avatar
bear
good bear
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:32 am

Postby bear » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:25 pm

i wanna go on one of those silent retreats
User avatar
bear
good bear
 
Posts: 3546
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:32 am

Postby mascotte » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:48 pm

User avatar
mascotte
 
Posts: 4797
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:18 pm
Location: Poland

Postby goldsoundz » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:13 pm

yeah i liked it. this quote especially:

"This is the scariest part of being a blackout drinker: not the inability to remember, the fear that someone else does. The worst thing you can do to a blackout drinker is tell them the truth."
User avatar
goldsoundz
 
Posts: 2998
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:45 pm
Location: chicago

Postby bongo » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:28 pm

gonna read that now

highly recommend the jamison book "the recovering" - it's resonating with me a lot.

anyone read the lost weekend? sounds up my alley (read "alley" as whatever genre it is that makes you feel incredibly grateful that you quit drinking and includes under the volcano and a fan's notes)
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
User avatar
bongo
man in hammock
 
Posts: 67389
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 pm
Location: Malaise (Live Acoustic)

Postby mooncalf » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:00 pm

goldsoundz wrote:yeah i liked it. this quote especially:

"This is the scariest part of being a blackout drinker: not the inability to remember, the fear that someone else does. The worst thing you can do to a blackout drinker is tell them the truth."


I totally relate to that quote. I used to wake up in a terror about the (true) things I might have told people the night before. Reminds me of this passage from the Big Book (pg 73), which has always resonated with me:

"More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. To the outer world he presents his stage character. This is the one he likes his fellows to see. He wants to enjoy a certain reputation, but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve it.

"The inconsistency is made worse by the things he does on his sprees. Coming to his senses, he is revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare. He trembles to think someone might have observed him. As fast as he can, he pushes these memories far inside himself. He hopes they will never see the light of day. He is under constant fear and tension - that makes for more drinking."
User avatar
mooncalf
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:53 pm

Postby Cone » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:18 pm

It’s so surreal whenever somebody will point me to a passage in the Big Book that was written like 70 years ago or so (with later revisions of course) and it’ll just be so relatable that it’s kinda scary.

Like I think at the second meeting I ever attended, somebody read out the passage that lists off all the ways an alcoholic tries to control or change their drinking habits and it just described my experience to a T
User avatar
Cone
 
Posts: 13006
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:58 am

Postby something sensible if » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:28 am

mooncalf wrote:
goldsoundz wrote:yeah i liked it. this quote especially:

"This is the scariest part of being a blackout drinker: not the inability to remember, the fear that someone else does. The worst thing you can do to a blackout drinker is tell them the truth."


I totally relate to that quote. I used to wake up in a terror about the (true) things I might have told people the night before. Reminds me of this passage from the Big Book (pg 73), which has always resonated with me:

"More than most people, the alcoholic leads a double life. He is very much the actor. To the outer world he presents his stage character. This is the one he likes his fellows to see. He wants to enjoy a certain reputation, but knows in his heart he doesn't deserve it.

"The inconsistency is made worse by the things he does on his sprees. Coming to his senses, he is revolted at certain episodes he vaguely remembers. These memories are a nightmare. He trembles to think someone might have observed him. As fast as he can, he pushes these memories far inside himself. He hopes they will never see the light of day. He is under constant fear and tension - that makes for more drinking."

This seems to describe the thing my friends and I referred to as "the shame monster". I would wake up and then start remembering things I did and it was just terrible wondering how other people perceived me. I don't think anyone really knew how bad this was for me.

Also it was one of the first epiphanies I had that my relationship/addiction to alcohol was not so much to do with the joy I got from drinking it, it was more about how I felt about myself and probably how I thought other people understood me, even as I was pretty hell bent on rejecting normalcy and normal behavior. "Fear and tension" is basically how I existed while I was sober and for some reason drinking was critical to alleviating that tension and letting me be myself, although the mechanisms by which it did that for me every weekend are still sorta weird to me. Why did I keep drinking if it was causing problems? I can't really say for sure what was propelling me.

I feel like a good example of this is how I used to talk to women I was interested in. I would be deliberately hard to connect with, maybe even to the point of mocking like the usual first steps of getting to know someone you like, because the way I really felt was that I "knew" that if I was myself I would be immediately rejected and discarded. Idk if I explained that right. But definitely a huge part of becoming sober was/is observing that there is something like amazing and pure and courageous about being honest about who I am. I wonder if above all else that's all I can really do to live my best life and get the most I can out of this experience.

But still, years later, sometimes I am just like, wow I am a huge piece of shit. I just got another job so I'll be seeing a psychologist again soon to hopefully talk through some of that sorta stuff.
something sensible if
 
Posts: 2618
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:20 am

Postby The Emperor's Son » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:55 am

while i was still in the throes pre-sobrierty infinite jest made me straight up bawl
User avatar
The Emperor's Son
 
Posts: 12252
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:11 pm

Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 9:58 am

hows everyone doing?

i think the recovering by leslie jamison is actually a very important book, im getting a lot out of it. granted its my first expressly recovery read but the way it juxtaposes traditional recovery narrative with exploratory biography and critical analysis of the form of "recovery book" (and all its trappings and associated cliches) is really quite remarkable. i recommend it highly.
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
User avatar
bongo
man in hammock
 
Posts: 67389
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 pm
Location: Malaise (Live Acoustic)

Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 10:03 am

one recent thing ive been thinking about is how amazing it is to actually be excited about doing things and exploring the world as an end in and of itself. perhaps this seems obvious or inarticulate but for me for so long everything hinged on drinking, drinking was the most important and/or decisive factor in whether id go do something (making sure i had enough quantity, would be able to drink enough, trying to manage/balance my drunk with respect to the social/familial/life demands in context) . all of this seems so sad now. the booze didnt light up those experiences with the ecstatic glow i thought it did, it dulled things and made my experience of them inauthentic and shot through with (sometimes quite a lot of) absence

anyway, heres to experiencing things raw and ragged and fully
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
User avatar
bongo
man in hammock
 
Posts: 67389
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 pm
Location: Malaise (Live Acoustic)

Postby bongo » Fri May 11, 2018 10:04 am

also - ctw, other people who strike me as more versed in recovery lit - what are some titles that have been valuable to you?

i am interested in john berrymans "the recovery" right now, may pick that up next
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
User avatar
bongo
man in hammock
 
Posts: 67389
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:32 pm
Location: Malaise (Live Acoustic)

PreviousNext

Return to Don't. Let. Go. You’ve got the music in you.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: crash.landing, loaf angel, No Good Advice, trampoline