White people get beat up too; where is the outrage, Jesse?!

Jesus christ you have to be kidding me.

Postby fatrick » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:21 pm

Feech La Manna wrote:At that point we kinda have to do something about the NRA right?


a chef in the building i work in was murdered in the bronx two nights ago, allegedly over his iphone or some shit, totally out-of-the-blue, quiet korean dude coming home from work, horrible, horrible story

dude was literally a sunday school teacher

all of the articles online have insane comment sections from people (well, the white and elderly) declaring, apropos of nothing, zimmerman a hero and that if he (zimmerman) would have been there this never would've happened, etc. interspersed with comments from his family/friends like, "why are you saying this?"

i can't believe the horror of a family coming to a country, sending their kid to culinary school, him getting a job at one of the nicer restaurants in the city, and then this tragic thing happens and the totality of sympathy/outrage from the public is basically: "SHOULDA HAD A GUN, BUDDY"

fuck this gay earth
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:24 pm

Erik Bonin' wrote:I guess I'm perplexed about this story angle.

Overzealous man pursues innocent kid, confronts and kills kid
versus
Overzealous man pursues innocent kid, kid gets scared/upset and attacks, overzealous man kills kid

same shit to me


It is the same. But that photo is probably going to get him acquitted.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby mcwop23 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:35 pm

And that's gonna fucking kill me
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby roy » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:56 pm

i'm pretty psyched to have the unconditional support of my fellow boarders when i start beating the shit out of anyone who dares to question me. sure, i realize concealed weapons are legal in my state and i might be shot, but i play the odds and know it's far, far more likely i won't be.

so I'll just rough up dudes who question my business and know that you all are behind me. thanks guys!
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:59 pm

Because it's quite obvious that Martin started whaling on Zimmerman the very second he was approached
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby roy » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:02 pm

Feech La Manna wrote:Because it's quite obvious that Martin started whaling on Zimmerman the very second he was approached

really? did i miss the videotape at 11?
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby gashed » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:10 pm

roy wrote:i'm pretty psyched to have the unconditional support of my fellow boarders when i start beating the shit out of anyone who dares to question me. sure, i realize concealed weapons are legal in my state and i might be shot, but i play the odds and know it's far, far more likely i won't be.

so I'll just rough up dudes who question my business and know that you all are behind me. thanks guys!


this might be the dumbest thing written about this subject yet
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:10 pm

Sarcasm, roy. Let a jury decide how much Zimmerman was to blame, that's all anyone in this thread asked. I don't see how you can assume that a kid on his way back from a trip to the store just started beating the shit out of someone for merely "questioning him." He clearly felt threatened.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby mcwop23 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:14 pm

Yeah they both stood their ground, just one was better at it than the other one

Case closed
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby acapelli » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:17 pm

mcwop23 wrote:Yeah they both stood their ground, just one had a gun

Case closed
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby roy » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:18 pm

Feech La Manna wrote:Sarcasm, roy. Let a jury decide how much Zimmerman was to blame, that's all anyone in this thread asked. I don't see how you can assume that a kid on his way back from a trip to the store just started beating the shit out of someone for merely "questioning him." He clearly felt threatened.

i can think of plenty of explanations in addition to the one that is so clear to you. and yeah, i'm all for letting the jury decide, which is why i let all the board jackasses post for 95 pages without busting their balls.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby carlperkins » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:20 pm

roy, are you more careful about letting your son go out in a hoodie since this happened?
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:20 pm

Can you at least agree that Zimmerman shouldn't have put himself in that situation?
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:24 pm

why are you arguing with roy
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:25 pm

I don't know
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:33 pm

Here's the thing. This whole situation hinges on what happens in the unknown space between Zimmerman getting out of his car and Martin being killed.

For example, Zimmerman could've rolled up to Martin, gun drawn, and started demanding answers, in which case, it doesn't seem unreasonable that Martin might decide he's in a life or death situation and start swinging at Zimmerman.

Or, alternately, Zimmerman could've rolled up to Martin, kept his gun out of sight, and politely asked Martin what he was doing in the neighborhood, and then for no real reason, Martin decides to violently assault Zimmerman and Zimmerman, fearing for his safety, pulls his gun out while he's pinned to the ground being pummelled and shoots Martin.

Given the history and background we've heard about the two people involved, one of these scenarios seems far more likely than the other.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:35 pm

In any event, the instigator of either scenario is Zimmerman, who had no cause to engage with Martin at all, no reason to suspect him of anything, and was told by the police operator that he shouldn't pursue, follow, or engage Martin; yet, he did so anyway and brought a gun along, creating a situation in which somebody was going to end up getting hurt.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby bread » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:43 pm

See the thing that makes me crazy and (and is something I believe may turn out to be an important part of Zimmerman's defense) is that he was not told not to follow Trayvon. He was told he didn't have to.

Now any normal fucking person would take that to mean stop following the kid (but then, any normal fucking person wouldn't have created this situation), but Zimmerman took it as a suggestion and not an order
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:47 pm

My wild, conjectural speculation is that Zimmerman was trying to stop or restrain Martin so he wouldn't get away before the police arrived, a citizen's arrest type thing. Remember he was upset on the 911 call because "these guys always get away."
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:49 pm

I mean, even if he was just asking Martin what he was doing in the neighborhood, what answer would've satisfied him? If Martin said "I'm here visiting my father" or "I live over there" is Zimmerman going to believe that? "Oh, ok, I'll take my gun home and call the police and tell them I made a mistake."

He wasn't going there to ask Martin what he was up to. He had already decided that. He was going there to stop him from leaving.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby zamboni » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:56 pm

so i take it that roy is genuinely mentally retarded
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:56 pm

zamboni wrote:so i take it that roy is genuinely mentally retarded


how is it that people aren't already aware of this
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby roy » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:59 pm

carlperkins wrote:roy, are you more careful about letting your son go out in a hoodie since this happened?

it's funny you should ask this. my son loves hooded sweatshirts, and even wants to wear the hood indoors. last year he was told at school that it isn't allowed in the classroom, and i have never let him do it indoors either.

when he asked "why?" and, i told him "because it makes you look like a thug!," while picturing eminem in my mind. about six weeks later, i got an angry email from my son's father, accusing me of impugning the clothes that he purchases for our son. i laughed and replied that i'd given the boy a half dozen hoodies and defended my position. i thought then, and i think now, that it's an anti-social way of dressing. i never even considered there was a racial aspect to it as hoodies seem to be popular with many people, including middle aged white women who go to the gym. (JUICY!)

apparently, i'm not the only one who thinks this way. a few days after the trayvon martin case hit the national news, one of my facebook friends wrote this:
Just back from an unintentional social experiment. I went for a walk around dusk. Decided not to go to the isolated nature trail for safety reasons. Since I was close to our church and there were a lot of cars there, I figure it would be a good alternative, with the perimeter of the paved church property being about a half-hour walk. It was chilly, so I pulled my hood over my head and put my hands in my pockets. What did I have to go and do that for? Well, the short and truthful answer is that my head, ears, and hands were cold. But it immediately dawned on me that, in my dark pants and dark hoodie at dusk, I'd justuddenly morphed into a menacing gangsta wannabe with my hand on a weapon at the ready. A few minutes later, I happened to be about 30 feet from one of the school exit doors when the 6-yr-old daughter and 10-yr-old son of our praise &worship pastors (white) were coming out of the building accompanied by one of my daughter's teenaged friends (black). All three of them looked startled and concerned, obviously not recognizing me, and I heard the youngest say, "Who's THAT??" I became completely self-conscious, not wanting to walk too fast or too slowly, careful not to look as though I was approaching them, or to make any ambiguous movements. They scampered away, and I found myself hoping they wouldn't run to the main building and tell someone there was a strange person lurking in the lot who didn't look "right". But I realized there are many situations in which I also feel uncomfortable around some people, even unsafe, for a variety of reasons. That's natural. But normal people move AWAY from what they perceive as potential trouble. They don't go after it.


it isn't obvious from the text, but my friend is a slender 51 year old black woman living in south carolina. as she states, she is someone who would move away from potential trouble. and i would too. but i'm not saying that's the only valid choice. i can see how neighborhood patrols could be a good thing, especially in underserved communities. i wish mr zimmerman had had some training. but in a post-9/11 world, a lot of people saw what happened when everyone just stood by and didn't get involved when there was trouble.

it's a complex issue in general, and i just wish hipinion had a lot less reactionary groupthink. you guys are better than that.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:01 pm

roy wrote:but in a post-9/11 world, a lot of people saw what happened when everyone just stood by and didn't get involved when there was trouble.


100% roy gold up in here
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:04 pm

oh my god
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:05 pm

Roy, did you even read your post as you wrote it? Here's what it boils down to.

My non-thug son loves hoodies. I don't let him wear hoodies. His dad was mad cause he bought the hoodies, but I pointed out I also bought him hoodies. Hoodies are an anti-social way of dressing; hoodies are popular with all types of people. My non-thug friend was cold and wore a hoodie and realized people thought she looked like a thug because only thugs wear hoodies.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:08 pm

Also are you familiar at all with this guy's background? I don't think the lesson to take from this is that we need more civilian police training.
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby mcwop23 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:11 pm

oh yeah we got some pages brewing right here
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby carlperkins » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:14 pm

universe wrote:
roy wrote:but in a post-9/11 world, a lot of people saw what happened when everyone just stood by and didn't get involved when there was trouble.


100% roy gold up in here


reading that post was the real-life version of
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Re: Zimmerman in jail; Stomp the Yard spoiler alert p.77

Postby universe » Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:16 pm

Holy shit, "Dreams"
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