how do you talk someone out of a pyramid scheme (nicely)

[Bob511]

I'll never forget my dad's reaction when I asked him to let me participate in the pyramid scheme they ran in the back of every Boy's Life magazine

I don't think there were more than two levels to these sales clubs, though, so as tacky as they were they were probably less of a pyramid scheme than, like, GIrl Scout cookies or school scrip.

[inanimate object...alive!]

Some Indian dude tried to get me involved with some internet pyramid scheme several years back. He randomly started talking to me at Trader Joe's, and I should have known better because the only people who ever get talked to randomly at Trader Joes are the bookish lonely girls who get creeped on by dudes like me.

[trope]

This stuff bums me out. We're a society of thieves.

[Cronos]

I went to one of these things for Amway at some kid from my high school's house and the second the guy said Amway I stopped paying attention. Kid has since unfriended me but I don't really care since the asshole wasted so much of my time.

[inanimate object...alive!]

wait, can you actually make money from pyramid schemes if you devote enough time/enthusiasm to it?

Yeah, but you have to know when to get out. If you're near the top of the pyramid before it collapses, take your money and get the hell out of there.

[VH Balanced]

I am convinced that the only people who ever use the phrase "pyramid scheme" in a sentence are people who are part of a pyramid scheme, denying their business model is a pyramid scheme, while talking to prospective marks. Only times I've ever heard it used are when I sat through some pyramid presentations, anyway.

And yes I've sat through a few presentations during my time, to the minor embarrassment of "duh, why didn't I recognize this was what it was" once they used the magic words but before I bought any of their unshiftable product.

Also, perhaps it is too obvious, but: Thread/Username. You've done your part TTH, all you can do now is be in position to catch this girl when she falls and try and reign in most of your "I told you so"s.

[The Emperor's Son]

thinking back, for about 4 consecutive years in my private christian elementary school, i was always one of the grand prize winners to ride in a limo to a lunch at planet hollywood because my mom would do all the work to sign friends and co-workers up to magazine subscriptions (i imagine i got it so many consecutive years because she just asked if they'd re-up their subscriptions thru her the following years). it was all because i feigned interest to ride in the limo.

the things parents do for their children.

[tth]

YOLO the greats never got anywhere playing it safe.

[tth]

[The Emperor's Son]

i sat thru one w/ my mom a few years back and it's sort of amazing that they devote a little power point slide to some sort of social engineering of how to identify good apples (people who can recognize a good business opportunity when they see it!) and bad apples (jealous droner bee skeptics that you should cut out of your life lest their negative vibes infect your success.)

literally, good apples vs. bad apples.

[The Emperor's Son]

so basically tth stop being a BAD APPLE

[WAC]

I feel as though the FTC is biased because it is a corporation.

Welp

[tth]

oh wait she thinks the ftc is a private company huh

[staple]

id have just had a laugh about this and went on my way. you're a better person than me tth.

[Jeremy]

I'm going to do a Kickstarter™ thing to raise money for my new book on the history of petty thievery.

[pana]

you'll get to say "i told you so", tth. and what's more rewarding than that? you're already a body by vi winner



but yeah, shit's sad. i've had a couple of friends (one of them def smarter than me. he now has a proper job making big $$$) fall for stuff like this initially, but thankfully chickening out before investing. and obviously during that brief period they thought they were onto something big, they were trying to convince me i was gonna miss out on this huge opportunity. it's usually people in their early 20s or middle-aged/old people who fall for this shit

[Durham]

I wonder if the Thugees would use power point rather than do the heart thing every time.

[Duke]

this thread ruined my good night

[genghis sean]

you know, at least when people get scammed through mail order brides or old ladies who have been told that their grandson is in a hospital in malaysia and needs money because he broke his leg - there's something pitiable about that. they're vulnerable people who have been humiliated and deeply harmed, their loneliness, desire to do good or mental incapacity has been ruthlessly exploited.

but man, when its just a bunch of the dumbest fucking people engaging in what should obviously be very morally suspect shit to anyone who is not literally retarded...I don't even know where you can muster an ounce of sympathy when they inevitably get royally fucked over. its maybe one of the few instances where people truly get what's coming to them.

the sorta sociological/psychological/political implications of people's motivations to involve themselves in this sort of thing has to be really fascinating though. does anyone know anything good to read on the subject?

[genghis sean]

I don't mean to be (more of a) dingus here but it does provoke interesting questions: to what extent do people involve themselves in these because they either consciously or unconsciously feel they have few other outlets for economic/creative potential? how much does it speak to some people's sense of marginalization or rather just full out balls to the walls willingness to exploit others in a semi self-aware environment of exploit or be exploited? how much of the hucksterism is self-aware and to what extent does it reflect the kind of acceptable institutionalized hucksterism that is so (ever more?) prevalent in contemporary western society? so, so many grad school bro-intellectual critical theory jumping off points

[chimp_]

my dad was in a pyramid scheme. he's well-meaning just pretty dumb i guess

[Broncobama]

I've probably talked 4 or 5 people out of pyramid schemes in my life. It usually ends with me just saying "it's a fucking pyramid scheme, dude."

When I was 16 my manager - a college educated and fairly well-compensated man - nearly got wrapped up in one of these. I can't recall the product but I think it was catalog trinkets ala Amway.

At any rate, he's telling me about this amazing system and in my head I'm thinking "you can't be this dumb." But I tell him "it's a fucking pyramid scheme, dude" to which he's very skeptical, because people get their hopes up very easily and are very opposed to giving them up. He gives me their packet and starts telling me how it works, which is basically Pyramid Scheme 101. He won't listen to reason and asks me to meet his regional distributor leader or whatever cult-like nonsense they impart onto their lackeys. I agree to go to lunch with this guy (again, I'm 16 and I work at K-Mart).

One day at lunchtime I'm standing outside of K-Mart with my smock in my hand when this yellow Lamborghini pulls up and the side door opens. "Nathan? Hop in." We do some quick introductions and we're off to lunch. He starts asking me about my finances (again, 16, K-Mart) and whether I like the car. I actually don't like the car, it's ugly as shit and uncomfortable. But he's like "it's so easy to get here, it's insane. You could be in a car like this in 2, 3 years, tops." It's obvious though that the sell is for my boss, who's at least making north of $50k, unlike myself. "Your boss, he's not totally sold on this yet, which is weird to me, but I can tell you get it. You should let him know how it works."

We're almost at the restaurant now, but all I can say to this guy is "this just seems like a fucking pyramid scheme to me, dude."

He immediately makes this face of "jesus, cmon, kid" and starts asking these awful rhetorical questions like "exactly what IS a pyramid scheme, when you really think about it ..." and "is not every corporation a pyramid scheme?"

We arrive at the restaurant. Previously this guy had told me "lunch is on me" but once we're in (it's a pub) he tells the waitress we'll just be having drinks today. He gets a mixed drink and I of course am relegated to diet soda. It's a pretty uncomfortable 15 minute meeting after which we sit in silence as he races me back to the sporting goods department.

I took all that info and talked the dude out, eventually, which seemed even more devastating to him.

Do this ... make yourself a calendar reminder for 6 months from now and ask them how much money they've made. Some people have to learn the hard way and others have to learn the really hard way.

[WAC]

oh wait she thinks the ftc is a private company huh

Pretty clever of them to snatch up the ftc.gov domain

[genghis sean]

to be taken in a pyramid scheme has to be especially devastating because you can't really remotely consider yourself a critical thinker or a 'reasonably intelligent person' after something like that. it's a scarlet letter of stupidity that can never be scrubbed off.

[chimp_]

genghis sean really going to town on the gullible here

[Broncobama]

No doubt that has to be the worst part. Quantitative, inescapable proof that you're a dullard. Very few people ever have to face such an honest mirror.

[Broncobama]

I've often dreamed of starting my own, but you do need a lot of capital and I can't imagine going to VCs saying "it's a multi-level strategic marketing system" without them telling me to get the fuck out of their offices.

[universe]

Rather than talking someone out of these schemes, you should just talk them into a fake, benign one you created.

[mcwop23]

Nathan come see me in 7 years

[genghis sean]

remember that thread we had where people talked about how few people seem to know how the tax bracket system works?

you have to think the overwhelming majority of people get involved in these things because they're actually completely unaware of how pyramid schemes actually operate even in the abstract, however much they may say that listen, they know what a pyramid scheme is and this is clearly not a pyramid scheme