is it time to revisit The Fiery Furnaces

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
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You're all fakes
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We'll kick your ass in

Postby whatabout tim » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:36 pm

loaf angel wrote:still waiting for The Prestige


I hate to break it to you, but Kanye is more of an Illusionist type of guy
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Postby Cronos » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:41 pm

internetfriend wrote:i like the implication that the only bad political thing you could do would be to vote for hitler


Yes agreed. I find the footage of Wagner at Hitler's speeches disturbing. He also wrote articles calling for Hindenburg to resign and blaming the Jews for the Reichatag fire.
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Postby internetfriend » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:48 pm

Cronos wrote:
internetfriend wrote:i like the implication that the only bad political thing you could do would be to vote for hitler


Yes agreed. I find the footage of Wagner at Hitler's speeches disturbing. He also wrote articles calling for Hindenburg to resign and blaming the Jews for the Reichatag fire.

i don't know the reference to the fire or to hindenburg but wagner's antisemitism and subsequent appropriation by Nazis is what I was referring to! I don't think it's a hugely common topic of discussion or anything, but I do think it's a pretty firm relationship a lot of people have to wagner's music. just to say that i'm not so sure that future generations will necessarily know kanye's music but not his politics
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Postby marble » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:50 pm

don't worry fellas it's just a kaufman bit
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Postby MikeyJ » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:33 pm

Allow me and think more about what my music choices mean of me. Yes, I went that political. The times are raw. Lately I've been playing out "Yeezus", "The LIfe of Pablo"
, and even "Ye", when I've had a bad day. Does this make me a contradiction? Perhaps. But 20 years from now, once we've passed this political moment, all contradiction will have been resolved.
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Postby clouds » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:53 pm

did cohen board here

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Postby Bad Craziness » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:54 pm

fuck
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Postby hologram » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:05 pm

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Postby cooly » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:10 pm

that's a pretty bad poem imo
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Postby cooly » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:23 pm

Jimmy Firecracker wrote:
cooly wrote:
probably a dumb post to make but bc i was one of the most vocal supporters of the musical content of 'ye' itt i figured it might be kinda dishonest of me to ghost as he commits harder and harder to this..


this seems incredibly republican


i'm not sure what is republican about coming into a thread i've posted in 1,000 times and saying 'yeah this sucks, even tho i still love the music, and will still listen to yandhi when it arrives. but yea it sucks.' idk people have been calling for forest design to return to the thread and comment and i feel like cronos and i are the closest thing we got.

it's hard for me to take the politics of pop stars seriously, partly for the reasons i alluded to with the adorno clip i linked to half-jokingly. maybe i should take them more seriously as far as their causal effect on the politics of young & impressionable people goes. i'm not sure what the numbers there are or if there are any numbers on it.

i do think internetfriend is right that this moment will be remembered in kanye's legacy (for some reason the reference point i'm coming to atm is as some kind of inverse jane fonda.)
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Postby cooly » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:24 pm

i don't mean to single u out by responding or seem defensive idk, just making posts. we've had chill exchanges in this thread before so i don't think you meant that as an attack really. my initial post was kinda poorly written as was the last one
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Postby Bad Craziness » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:31 pm

sig-worthy
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Postby mondays » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:36 pm

anyone else watch that video and think "this guy has lost it... there is no way he is not going to be the next president"
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Postby miko mido » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:59 pm

cooly wrote:
Jimmy Firecracker wrote:
cooly wrote:
probably a dumb post to make but bc i was one of the most vocal supporters of the musical content of 'ye' itt i figured it might be kinda dishonest of me to ghost as he commits harder and harder to this..


this seems incredibly republican


i'm not sure what is republican about coming into a thread i've posted in 1,000 times and saying 'yeah this sucks, even tho i still love the music, and will still listen to yandhi when it arrives. but yea it sucks.' idk people have been calling for forest design to return to the thread and comment and i feel like cronos and i are the closest thing we got.

it's hard for me to take the politics of pop stars seriously, partly for the reasons i alluded to with the adorno clip i linked to half-jokingly. maybe i should take them more seriously as far as their causal effect on the politics of young & impressionable people goes. i'm not sure what the numbers there are or if there are any numbers on it.

i do think internetfriend is right that this moment will be remembered in kanye's legacy (for some reason the reference point i'm coming to atm is as some kind of inverse jane fonda.)


i hated ye and thought life of pablo, while having a lot of greatness on it, had a lot of seeds that sprouted into the things i disliked about ye but i found both of them super fascinating nonetheless. also thought kids see ghosts was pretty great, altho due more to kid cudi. due to that and moving to his home city over the summer i've probably listened to more kanye than i have in many years. it's actually made a good chunk of his heartfelt earlier material into complete tearjerker shit for me. it's a really tragic arc.

i'm going to continue to listen to his music because i care about the person making it, as irrational as that may be. i don't blame anyone for having exited out at any time in the past three years but i don't think i can & don't really blame anyone for not being able to divest themselves as long as theyre not sincerely arguing shit like

internetfriend wrote:Oh PLEASE you guys KNOW you’ll all listen to everything he puts out so why even criticize him. When kanye makes music we all listen to it and post about it and that’s just the way of things


. nobody is being forced to listen to kanye but i still don't think personal choice in media consumption actually amounts to much outside of an attempt to feel some sort of power in a fucked up and unpredictable world that's being savaged by those in power.

it definitely doesn't help that a lot of the current problems i have with kanye as a person as of late seem to have taken ahold in hip hop at large i.e. the rapid normalization of 6ix9ine and xxxtentacion. the fact that both young thug and lil wayne have done songs with 6ix9ine and x respectively really really sucks but i think the problem with hip hop at the moment runs a lot deeper than any single persons personal choice. it's such a fucking mess.
Last edited by miko mido on Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby miko mido » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:05 am



even tho he's mostly just reading off a list of webmd symptoms this is probably the most affecting thing he's done since 808s and it's more depressing he was dealing with this shit 3 years ago. i think i hated ye enough i turned into negative xerox of forest design. peace.
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Postby cooly » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:16 am

appreciate the post miko mido. makes me feel a little less out of tune with shit
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Postby miko mido » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:31 am



never posted this but apropos of nothing outside of thinking about how life of pablo had a lot of what makes his current personality so odious but. i think a lot about how the demo track chance the rapper made for waves has him imitating frank ocean's vocal style during the chorus. then kanye decided to put chris brown, the guy who assaulted him and called him a f*****t on it instead, another guy who's normalization is horrific and bizarre. giving that a guy a chorus about letting life come at you and the past be the past . then after that sequenced waves like two songs before frank's own feature on the album. Love Everyone.
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Postby kirito » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:06 am

i get feeling hopeless or distraught at the direction this country is going. i get wanting to use your money and platform to get through to people and try to get them to change. i get wanting to bridge the gap and help fix some of the political divide that's caused damage. i get being frustrated and disillusioned after obama didn't solve issues in the black community. i just wish he would fucking listen to the people around him who tell him that this is not the way. how the fuck can he think he accomplished anything yesterday when he all he did was ramble for ten minutes and the only reply from the president of the united states is that it was "impressive"? he didn't fucking listen and he doesn't give a shit about you or anything you have to say beyond your usefulness as a prop. and you wasted your fucking time anyway by doing nothing but compliment him and showing him a fucking doodle of air force one.

so that's my rant and my announcement that i'm done defending someone i used to worship.
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Postby big zorb » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:40 am

cooly wrote:
Jimmy Firecracker wrote:
cooly wrote:
probably a dumb post to make but bc i was one of the most vocal supporters of the musical content of 'ye' itt i figured it might be kinda dishonest of me to ghost as he commits harder and harder to this..


this seems incredibly republican


i'm not sure what is republican about coming into a thread i've posted in 1,000 times and saying 'yeah this sucks, even tho i still love the music, and will still listen to yandhi when it arrives. but yea it sucks.' idk people have been calling for forest design to return to the thread and comment and i feel like cronos and i are the closest thing we got.

it's hard for me to take the politics of pop stars seriously, partly for the reasons i alluded to with the adorno clip i linked to half-jokingly. maybe i should take them more seriously as far as their causal effect on the politics of young & impressionable people goes. i'm not sure what the numbers there are or if there are any numbers on it.

i do think internetfriend is right that this moment will be remembered in kanye's legacy (for some reason the reference point i'm coming to atm is as some kind of inverse jane fonda.)


i think the point was probably along the lines of trump supporters committing harder and harder to supporting the president no matter what he does. there's no real logic to it, if he sucks you can just walk away. like if you defend someone and they act like a shithead, why would you double down and not say "oh i was wrong, that person IS a shithead, i'm out."

i don't mean that as a personal attack or anything, it just seems illogical to be like the worse he gets, the more i HAVE to support him! no ya don't.
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:05 pm

big zorb wrote:
cooly wrote:
Jimmy Firecracker wrote:
cooly wrote:
probably a dumb post to make but bc i was one of the most vocal supporters of the musical content of 'ye' itt i figured it might be kinda dishonest of me to ghost as he commits harder and harder to this..


this seems incredibly republican


i'm not sure what is republican about coming into a thread i've posted in 1,000 times and saying 'yeah this sucks, even tho i still love the music, and will still listen to yandhi when it arrives. but yea it sucks.' idk people have been calling for forest design to return to the thread and comment and i feel like cronos and i are the closest thing we got.

it's hard for me to take the politics of pop stars seriously, partly for the reasons i alluded to with the adorno clip i linked to half-jokingly. maybe i should take them more seriously as far as their causal effect on the politics of young & impressionable people goes. i'm not sure what the numbers there are or if there are any numbers on it.

i do think internetfriend is right that this moment will be remembered in kanye's legacy (for some reason the reference point i'm coming to atm is as some kind of inverse jane fonda.)


i think the point was probably along the lines of trump supporters committing harder and harder to supporting the president no matter what he does. there's no real logic to it, if he sucks you can just walk away. like if you defend someone and they act like a shithead, why would you double down and not say "oh i was wrong, that person IS a shithead, i'm out."

i don't mean that as a personal attack or anything, it just seems illogical to be like the worse he gets, the more i HAVE to support him! no ya don't.

this is not hugely relevant, but im always very suspicious of the use of words like “republican” to describe these sorts of relations. like, for this to be a convincingly “republican” thing to do it’d have to be demonstrably the sole province of republicans—meaning, in part, that republicans themselves would be clearly in the wrong to hold the same beliefs about their political opponents

but they wouldn’t be. the belief that one’s opponents are supporting someone who should not be supported is an elemental aspect of contemporary political ideology. so someone seemingly doubling down on their beliefs isn’t a “republican” thing, it’s a “my enemy” thing. it’s like saying “your argument is wrong because it looks how my correct argument holds that wrong arguments look”

i know you were just talking through jimmy’s use of the word, and i know that jimmy didn’t say this is why they were using the word. i just think that there’s a trend among online people who believe themselves to be lefty to take specific, useful terms (“republican”, “neoliberal”, “conservative”) and to bleach them all into synonyms for “bad”, and it’s a trend that makes those online people bear a much greater resemblance to the consertatives they deride than i think they acknowledge
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Postby tricksforchips » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:07 pm

uhhhhhhhh what

@bad craziness
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Postby black mamba » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:11 pm

big zorb wrote:
cooly wrote:
Jimmy Firecracker wrote:
cooly wrote:
probably a dumb post to make but bc i was one of the most vocal supporters of the musical content of 'ye' itt i figured it might be kinda dishonest of me to ghost as he commits harder and harder to this..


this seems incredibly republican


i'm not sure what is republican about coming into a thread i've posted in 1,000 times and saying 'yeah this sucks, even tho i still love the music, and will still listen to yandhi when it arrives. but yea it sucks.' idk people have been calling for forest design to return to the thread and comment and i feel like cronos and i are the closest thing we got.

it's hard for me to take the politics of pop stars seriously, partly for the reasons i alluded to with the adorno clip i linked to half-jokingly. maybe i should take them more seriously as far as their causal effect on the politics of young & impressionable people goes. i'm not sure what the numbers there are or if there are any numbers on it.

i do think internetfriend is right that this moment will be remembered in kanye's legacy (for some reason the reference point i'm coming to atm is as some kind of inverse jane fonda.)


i think the point was probably along the lines of trump supporters committing harder and harder to supporting the president no matter what he does. there's no real logic to it, if he sucks you can just walk away. like if you defend someone and they act like a shithead, why would you double down and not say "oh i was wrong, that person IS a shithead, i'm out."

i don't mean that as a personal attack or anything, it just seems illogical to be like the worse he gets, the more i HAVE to support him! no ya don't.


i think user cooly meant it purely in the context of this thread in light of how he is still listening to his music despite all of this nonsense
Last edited by black mamba on Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Jimmy Firecracker » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:13 pm

i used the word republican because its literally what the republican party, and its base, have done with trump. and now kanye is also ingratiating himself with the members of the party who enabled trump. maybe i'm wrong. its just how i perceived cooly's post!
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Postby Jimmy Firecracker » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:16 pm

"kinda dishonest of me to ghost"

this is republican to me. not conservative, not fascist, or whatever. just republican. like switching to "owning the libs" because its impossible to defend any decision on its merits. its self-serving.
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Postby cooly » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:23 pm

i'm actually more confused now that everyone has explained more. i was gonna write a post similar to internetfriend's but he did a good job with it first and then as the explanation expanded i lost track of what happened. my post was expressing the thought "he's being gross and it's not something i'm willing to defend, but his music is still very important to me, and maybe that's inconsistent with my political identity, but i feel i might as well say it in case anyone who has been reading the past 600 pages and saw me on most of them was wondering where i'm at"
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Postby black mamba » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:26 pm

Jimmy Firecracker wrote:"kinda dishonest of me to ghost"

this is republican to me. not conservative, not fascist, or whatever. just republican. like switching to "owning the libs" because its impossible to defend any decision on its merits. its self-serving.


yeah to ghost from this thread not from like kanye west devotion
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Postby Jimmy Firecracker » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:28 pm

i guess i should be clear i'm just responding to the words, in this context, and not your relationship with kanye, which i know nothing about. i wouldnt expect for you to defend him, and i think the problem with FD is that he compulsively felt like he had to take a bullet for the guy, which of course ppl will then react to.

the dude is on one right now, of course this thread is going to be filled with the reactions to that. whats republican to me is that impulse that some ppl have (i.e. cronos, came to wreck) to just turn it around into contempt/smugness towards those having that upset reaction.
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:28 pm

Jimmy Firecracker wrote:"kinda dishonest of me to ghost"

this is republican to me. not conservative, not fascist, or whatever. just republican. like switching to "owning the libs" because its impossible to defend any decision on its merits. its self-serving.

i don’t think cooly meant “ghost” as in “stop supporting kanye”, i think he meant “ghost” as in “just quietly not say anything after arguing in favor of enjoying his music” or whatever. i don’t think that has much to do with continuing your support of someone because you’ve supported them in the past—on the contrary, i think it tries to address how leaving that support as the last thing you’ve said on a subject can be interpreted as tacit continued endorsement

e: oops cooly posted
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Postby cooly » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:29 pm

oh, is that where the confusion is coming from? yea, i meant what black mamba is saying
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