Videogame Thread

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Postby internetfriend » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:11 pm

like the fucKIng frayed blade and gael's GS in dks3!
iambic wrote:no don't make those posts
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Postby tonybricker » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:17 pm

Shadow of War is super fun, having so much fun just running around the city of Minas Ithil and fighting/ambushing orc hordes. Will get back to the story at some point but right now just enjoying the environment immensely
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Postby Esteban » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:18 pm

Yeah I'd agree with that assessment of troidvains(hot new abbreviation alert) but HK seems like it really opens up movement wise in a way I wish others in the genre would mimic
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Postby dan » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:28 pm

Movement in Hollow Knight isn't that free and varied, you'll certainly notice it most early on where you almost feel like you're being pulled down hard after you jump. You get some good movement abilities, but I don't know if I'd say that it's the game's strong suit (although it controls really well). Similar situation for the combat which feels really wonderful to control, but I felt didn't have a ton of variation. And yet I'd say HK is probably the best non-Metroid/Castlevania Metroidvania (La-Mulana is better but it's a whole other thing almost), it's a borderline masterpiece.

More on this if I ever get around to my big indievania post.
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Postby the soccer return believer » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:10 pm

damn that hitman video is hilarious


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Last edited by the soccer return believer on Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby cyantific » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:20 pm

I went on a streak of playing a bunch of Metroidvania games and Hollow Knight was one of the better ones.

Owl Boy, Valdis Story: Abyssal City, and Dust: An Elysian Tail were nothing special but still fun. Ori & the Blind Forest was probably the best one I've played so far.
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Postby Esteban » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:22 pm

Dan, my man, I would be interested in reading a big troidvain post.
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Postby broodstar » Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:49 am

valkyria is one of the truly good games
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Postby traced out » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:01 am

still fuckin waiting on 2 and 3
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:37 pm

internetfriend wrote:i'm also not really a big metroidvania person, though, in part because it feels like they usually feel like someone took a fun game with a bunch of cool well-implemented mechanics and then like...took away those mechanics and made you play the game to get them, so that you can only use them after you've already played through the game

i get how this is tiring but there are metroidvanias that don't play by these rules, among them resident evil until re4, the metal gears up through mgs2 and dark souls

resident evil gates your progress with a simple lock and key system but it does so because backtracking means the game gets to surprise you, gets to throw new things at you, gets to make you dread going back into that room with the three hunters, gets to make previous encounters a new challenge just by virtue of having to navigate that space in reverse. and i love that kinda shit

metal gear does similar things but also allows you to be hugely expressive as a player within that structure, meaning the cause and effect and trail of dominos that is a major tenet of its game design thrives in that overlapping of space

and, you know, dark souls is dark souls

i don't think metoidvanias have to be so grounded in formula
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Postby internetfriend » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:43 pm

i think a definition of metroidvania that includes those games is broad to the point of uselessness
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Postby trouble » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:49 pm

owned
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:55 pm

come on. resident evil is structurally metroid, through and through. the fact that it's also other things doesn't affect the definition of one genre. hell, "metroidvania" is a hybrid of a signifier as it is and largely a retrofitted one.
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Postby Pashmina » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:56 pm

iambic wrote:
internetfriend wrote:i finished first run of dks3+dlc last night and am in my first game lull in ages. do i...play hollow knight? do new hitman stuff? start another run of witcher 3 or dk3?? i feel like im in a playstation ad...the one with the tavern

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Postby milknight » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:59 pm

i would definitely not consider mgs or dks "metroidvania" and ive never played RE but im inclined to agree with IS
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Postby Esteban » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:07 pm

Yeah I mean, prime isn't even considered a metroidvania & only like 5 castlevania games are proper ones.
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Postby pablito » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:07 pm

metroidvania has only really ever meant the progression structure for me, just like "rpg" describes a progression structure and not core gameplay
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:08 pm

fine, but the "2d platformer with powerups and backtracking" definition that people hold up to be "metroidvania" ignores the genre stretching and spanning history of the fucking games that came to define it. case in point, the original legend of zelda, which predates metroid

i don't understand why it's necessary to limit a genre to only its most strict definition, either. everything's meaningless without context, why should stretching the definition be seen as the dilution of a genre instead of a celebration of the way our games aren't easily classifiable?

i also don't understand how dks is "definitely not" a metroid game when everything about firelink shrine embodies what's great about metroid, structurally. or why metal gear solid and the looping, overlapping structures that are shadow moses and big shell and the very real powerups - in the form of weapons and items needed to progress - they keep hidden away shouldn't qualify?
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:13 pm

and the idea that 3d games can't be metroidvanias, and as a result somehow metroid prime isn't one, is backwards as fuck
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Postby internetfriend » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:16 pm

chairkicker wrote:and the idea that 3d games can't be metroidvanias, and as a result somehow metroid prime isn't one, is backwards as fuck

just to be clear, no one has said this in this conversation so far
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:18 pm

esteban implied it, jokingly or not. and it gets thrown around a lot in this kinda argument, so it's just my resentment for having been through this acting up. sorry
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Postby Marcus » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:18 pm

internetfriend wrote:i think a definition of metroidvania that includes those games is broad to the point of uselessness


agree
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Postby trouble » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:19 pm

They are Metroidlite
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:22 pm

i picked resident evil (up to 4), metal gear (through sons of liberty) and dark souls carefully. they shouldn't be controversial picks. there is so much of metroid's DNA in these games
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Postby trouble » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:27 pm

they should call them Metroizeldas because the castelvania franchise peaked with Rondo of Blood
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Postby Esteban » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:30 pm

chairkicker wrote:i picked resident evil (up to 4), metal gear (through sons of liberty) and dark souls carefully. they shouldn't be controversial picks. there is so much of metroid's DNA in these games


I'm not arguing that but resident evil predates sotn and the term wasn't coined until the latter came out for a reason. Axiom verge is considered an entry over say yooka laylee for the same reason.
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Postby Esteban » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:34 pm

RPG has become as useless of a game classification as "rock" is to music
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:38 pm

that's not going to stop me from using rock or post punk with some context

and i mean "metroidvania" was only coined post-sotn because sotn is a goddamned love letter to super metroid. but why does sotn get sole dibs there when clearly metroid has influenced many other games? do i have to defer to "metroid-like" when i talk about resident evil?
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Postby chairkicker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:39 pm

are wire and joy division not equally post punk bands?

does every metroidvania have to be a clone of super metroid or symphony of the night?
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Postby john plainman » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:42 pm

categorizations of media are dumb and reductive!
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