Rec.Music.Phish

Let's talk Aguachile Alley

Postby Bisexual Lightning » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:35 am

Phil wrote:I enjoyed the second set of 2/18 well enough, there's nothing memorable about any of it, but I'm a total sucker for that sort of very 2.0 aimlessness in the Moma > LxL combo and it's always nice to see Divided Sky somewhere surprising.

I haven't gotten a chance to listen to this full show yet but I'm familiar with the Moma > LxL segment and I too am a huuuge sucker for that sound, which is why I loved that LA AC/DC Bag > Caspian bit as well. Thunderhead is a darkhorse favorite of mine, and this is a really cool placement for it, before the intrepid 2nd set DSky.

I like the look of the first set, with its classic late 90s vibe, but it'll all be dependent on how well they move through Jim, Twist, Coil, & Stash. Overall this show seems like it could be similar to 11/4/98 Denver, which is not criminally underrated per se, just seldom discussed at all, even though contains some really engaging and worthwhile music.
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:01 pm

I think maybe the Worcester ghost gets all the shine retrospectively but you’re right. There’s already so many more highlights than I’d expected.
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:01 am

I remember thinking both Ghosts were a little bland, but Vegas blew me away..

Now, I normally wouldn’t advocate jamming anything into a down tempo Low Rider... but I’ll give Worcester another shot
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:36 am

i also need a worcester revisit. but my task today is to unlock more of this intimidating as hell Chicago show. look at this flawless setlist

ALLSTATE ARENA, THURSDAY 02/20/2003

SET 1: Rift > Rock and Roll, Guyute, Driver, Waves > Simple , Gotta Jibboo

SET 2: Tweezer > Punch You In the Eye > Fast Enough for You > Seven Below , Pebbles and Marbles

ENCORE: Golgi Apparatus, Anything But Me > Tweezer Reprise
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Postby vhg » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:39 am

really great first set! Simple and Jibboo crushed, really loved when Jibboo got going again after it wound down the first time
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:57 am

yeah this first set is amazing

Guy Incognito wrote:2/20 is weird cause it's like, technically a *good phish show* but i've listened to that second set a bunch over the years and nothing about those jams have ever really stuck with me. will try again tomorrow

Guy, you may have been listening to the wrong set! well, ymmv, but that's my impression after digging into this. the first set is masterful, building in real interesting ways. some Tower Jam-ish tones and tension in the Simple and a big pleasing pay off in Jibboo.
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Postby ted dibiase » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:59 pm

Guy Incognito wrote:did everyone in phishdom just take a vow of silence regarding the 2/15/03 ghost? that blew me away when i listened to it for the first time this morning


Anecdote on this Ghost. When we walked in on 2/15 there was a MASSIVE bedsheet banner hung from the first row of a section "871 Days Since Last Ghost". So we were fully expecting a Ghost. Going only from memory here, I seem to remember that the song section of Ghost was completely botched and the jam took a while for Fishman to really get the groove going. But then raged.

When we walked in on 2/16, same banner with the "87" scratched out - "1 Days Since Last Ghost". Vegas Piper (aka "Viper" in my circle) is maybe my favourite thing I ever saw live.

When we got home from Vegas, talking to people about the highlights, basically no one believed us. They had all read the non-stop negative reviews on PT and decided the shows all sucked. Period. It was probably months - years later that I would get the occasional message "Holy shit, finally listened to Vegas Piper. You were right!"

It was such a strange negative time. Most people were insanely excited that they were back. A few rough moments and botches and they immediately turned on them. PT was probably at its worst (lol?) and most influential during that era.
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:53 pm

The negativity is incredible and I think 2.0 highlights outside of the top 5 let’s say get an unfair amount of shit from all sides. I can tell my friends who were around in the 90s have little to no respect for ‘the bad years.’ And 15 yrs later all newer fans seem loyal to both the heyday and their era. The entire 03-04 catalog is just painted with a big ass Oxy brush and it didn’t always feel that way at the time.
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:54 pm

Ugh I hate how old and lame that post made me feel
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:02 pm

Back to Chicago, the second set was also quite good. Seven Below stuck with me the most but I am also in awe of this stretched out experimental Pebbles. It’s a really dense set with a PARTY of a pyite and beautiful fefy respite. Maybe Tweezer is my least fav of the night’s big hitters but what a show.
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:59 pm

So I just finished 2/18/03 and I have a wealth of thoughts about it... err, well, I have a handful of thoughts about it that may or may not be of any value...

Like I predicted, the opening frame of this show would rest on whether its first set jams were delivered with the same sort of first set gusto that defined the first three shows of the tour, from the LA Chalk Dust and Gin to the Vegas Wolfman's and Bowie. the Band, however, delivered merely serviceable renditions of Jim, Twist, and although I rather liked the Squirming Coil > Brian & Robert combo and the Stash, the show didn't really pick up steam until BoaF, which set up a very nice Walls of the Cave. Don't let the brevity deceive you, this (like every 2.0 version, most likely) deserves a listen, whereas the rest of the set is only worthwhile if you're trying to review the show as a whole.

The second set is a very 3.0-esque affair. it has some nice improvisational meat in Moma > LxL, followed by the atypically beautiful pairing of Thunderhead and Divided Sky. I'm definitely more appreciative of Trey's 2.0 grittiness than I was at the time, and I think tonally he does some very impressive things that breathe life into some of these classic tunes... that is IF they've practiced them enough for whatever 2.0 show they happen to be playing. Carini indeed provides what the LA version lacked in worthwhile jamming, and a solid YEM with a kooky VJ cover closes out the set.

All and all this show is an enjoyable, if not totally engaging listen. A solid B- to B. In most tours of that era (counting the last few years of 1.0) this might be an off night in a small market sort of affair.. you've looked past the setlist dozens of times without taking particular note, until one day someone recommends the Moma > LxL combo, or you're listening through the tour, and you find some hidden gems that go to show you that every Phish show provides something of value, no matter how small.

However... this isn't most tours of that era. this was't a mid tour weeknight gig in Normal, Il. this was their ONLY SHOW IN COLORADO between the years of 2000 and 2009. their home away from home. not only that the two previous shows were solitary affairs in 2000 and 1998. and therein lies the problem with 2.0 Phish. with the limits they imposed on their touring, and seemingly their practicing as well, their capacity to break hearts was really maxed out. so, yea. I get it that this show has such a lowly reputation. even if it's not totally warranted taken on musical merit alone.
The UC Berkeley expert I spoke with described your approach to boarding -- posting things without knowing whether they’re true in order to juice engagement -- as “sociopathic.” Do you have a response to that?
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:03 pm

ps: I love the 2.0 soundboards... Mike sounds so boss
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Postby vhg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:24 am

gauchebag wrote:
VHGisdead wrote:Unfortunately archive.org only crawls back to 2016, but I found a forum.phish.net thread from March 20, 2012, that indicates that at that time, the 5 top-rated shows ever were

12/31/95
12/31/93
3/22/93
12/30/93
11/22/97

I've never listened to a single one of those 93 shows!


you should listen to these shows.

12/30/93 is one of the first shows i got a recording of....opening bowie is sick, the forbin's narration is a lot of fun and the second set is just perfect. this is an all-time slave and the mike's is also sublime

12/31/93 i'm not as nuts about as some people but it has that ALS -> DWD jam from before DWD was a thing and the Hood is oft talked about

and 3.22.93 is a gamehenge show, come on that one is phish 101. well so is 12.31.93, but really all three should be. 12/30/93 is the best show of the bunch imho


OK fine but does it count if it's 2/20/93 instead?
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Postby vhg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:33 am

I've never heard so much reverb in Phish vocals before. It's like the freakin Downeaster Alexa in here
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Postby vhg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:13 am

yeah I'm a big idiot.

It's been enjoyable listening to shows from 15 and 25 years ago today, respectively
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:02 am

k_uger wrote:However... this isn't most tours of that era. this was't a mid tour weeknight gig in Normal, Il. this was their ONLY SHOW IN COLORADO between the years of 2000 and 2009. their home away from home. not only that the two previous shows were solitary affairs in 2000 and 1998.


this gets at something that i've been experiencing in my relisten. i've always semi-overlooked how each of these nights as they travel eastward is a huge festive welcome home party. i'm listening to sbds for emphasis, but for the most part have been sticking to these grungy, hollow, crowd-forward auds. i'm happy to do it because over and over again there are these huge swells and crowd pops - chicago rift and pyite, denver yem, la chalkdust.

i just get hung up on examining sometimes, prob too much, whether or not they are matching the room and vice versa. denver sounded like a big puzzle for everybody in there and chicago set one for me has been the best example of clear intent and nobody letting the ball drop the entire time. (outside of overhearing one really annoying conversation during the Simple).

not overly familiar with 2/21 or these Cincys at all.
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:31 am

The funny thing about 2/20/03 is that it had an AWFUL reputation for YEARS! Rather than being an example of how 2.0 is underrated, like it is now, it was pointed to as a huge letdown and was PT fodder for a long ass time. Even for folks who were in the room at the time, don’t think they really GOT IT.
The UC Berkeley expert I spoke with described your approach to boarding -- posting things without knowing whether they’re true in order to juice engagement -- as “sociopathic.” Do you have a response to that?
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:45 am

That disproves what I’m saying but also makes sense. There were moments before Chicago, but as a full show it was the first comprehensive realization of what we now know by the shorthand “2.0”. And I guess as a brand new thing it’s not entirely lovable.
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Postby vhg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:53 pm

I'm just trying to figure out why I didn't even try to see Phish in Atlanta that summer. I was a year into college and didn't have any friends at the time who were even remotely interested in them so I guess I let them fall off my radar too.
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:38 pm

I was 16 and I couldn't get a ride to Pittsburgh... if only...
The UC Berkeley expert I spoke with described your approach to boarding -- posting things without knowing whether they’re true in order to juice engagement -- as “sociopathic.” Do you have a response to that?
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:49 pm

2/21 - fun!

though i can't say i would enjoy an I Didn't Know first set closer in person. a very strong and focused DWD and a really nice interlude between solid versions of Waste > 2001. cool possum too. trey seemed to be lagging in weird places vocally all night, culminating (predictably) in almost getting lapped by Cavern multiple times. i can't tell if he was doing it on purpose but it was nerve-wracking sitting here trying to will him to outrun the music.
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Postby vhg » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:00 pm

also, apologies for getting a lil kooky in here last night. I was trying out my new Pax. It worked.
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Postby Althea » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:47 pm

Whoa whoa whoa, what do you think this is, a Discovery Biscuits show? As I'm sure you know, this fanbase has a zero tolerance policy on drugs man.
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Postby Althea » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:47 pm

Nope, not going to fix that autocorrect.

Congrats on the pax, I love mine so much.
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:16 pm

with one push of the submit button you've improved their band name tenfold
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:13 pm

good posts, all. productively nonsensical, just the way I likes it.

I'm a little behind here, but I'm just finishing Chicago... BOY what an interesting show!! I've always loved that Simple, but I think I spaced out and stopped paying attention the past 3 times I've listened to that Jibboo. frankly it might just be TOO peaky, I lose interest. this Tweezer is twisted and radiant as ever, and for the record I don't like the comparison this rendition gets to the Nassau Tweezer, unless it's to call each other polar opposites.. I feel like the bouyant, light side of jamming got a lot more of an overt workout on this tour, vs the darkness peering in through the cracks in transitional spaces, creaking voices, and missed changes, and this Tweezer is more the sort of conversation they carried on with the Twists from NJ on 2/24 and 7/30 than it is the triumphant celebration of THE Nassau Tweezer.

Anyway, Seven Below totally blew me away!! I always remember being sort of bored of this version after about minute 13, like Guy said, but WOW, what incredibly unique rhythm jamming! the ever plodding groove, leaping modes and key signatures like Brian Eno interpreting Giant Steps.. while on heroin. this may be the closest they came to interpreting the music and feel of the Victor Disc live on stage, and I can't wait to listen through this jam again. Pebbles and Marbles, which like most Round Room tunes I'm particularly fond of, delivers one of the its finest renditions... however you can hear Trey and Fish straight up fighting over the tempo at the end, a far cry from the egoless, open grooves in the preceding jam. you can hear Trey continue to drag the tempo in the beginnings of each of the three encore songs. between ending the show with a botched new tune, Trey seemingly trying to fade out while Fish pushes harder and harder in P&M, and the craggly vocals and ENERGY SUCKING PLACEMENT of Anything But Me, I can understand why some fans walked out of this room feeling underwhelmed. I literally love Anything But Me more than probably 99% of Phans, but this was just a mistake. it's a gorgeous version, though, and you can hear the pain and struggle behind Trey's voice, which makes it that much richer. like Jerry, it was the vocals that betrayed the state he was in when he was at his low points.
The UC Berkeley expert I spoke with described your approach to boarding -- posting things without knowing whether they’re true in order to juice engagement -- as “sociopathic.” Do you have a response to that?
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:39 pm

Nice. Love reading that and agree with most except I couldn’t care less about 90% of encore decisions. ever. And also I was drawn to the jibboo for the same reasons it put you off. For me, surrounded by the other boundless 20 min options it was a warming change of pace to experience a more coherent statement like that.

all told this show really blew me away this week
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:51 pm

this Cinci DWD is blowing me away now.. what a really really fun, cohesive, type 1.5 in the very best of ways version. it reminds me a lot of the December 99 renditions, which are some of my favorites.. 12/8, 12/15, and the granddaddy, 12/31

and perrrrfect placement of Lifeboy.. wow. wonderful start to this set.
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Postby Bisexual Lightning » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:25 pm

alright, picking Cinci back up where I left off... mid vacuum solo.
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:30 pm

I'm that guy who loves Phish and never heard the 2/22 Gin before today...ama

of course there are other highlights, but i dont think i'll have anything else to say about this show and will instead just loop this gin for the rest of the day and deeply ponder how it's not a version from '95.
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