what are you reading right now?

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Postby cooly » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:11 pm

i don't disagree that some of those ideas are present in the book, but i don't think that's what the woman is really doing. it's obvious that there is a struggle between the protagonist's individualism and the communalist village (although i'm not convinced these are best understood in east vs west terms, like i don't think "curious about the world" is an essentially western trait. he's a teacher, not a scientist, but i'm not sure this is that important.)

i guess i would ask on your reading why the woman needs to be a character at all. the village already stands for everything the woman stands for on your view, right? do you think it's a total coincidence that the situation he's trapped becomes the standard family unit? i feel like it's pretty important that the world he's trapped in in the hole resembles ordinary life for men wrt the unceasing labor and the woman at home, and i don't think it's ungenerous to think about the role of the woman in that light.
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Postby deadbass » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 pm

I think without another person in the pit, he would never submit to their way of life, the ideological dialogue the novel is creating wouldn't exist (or at least it wouldn't be as compelling). I honestly shouldn't be debating this because I really don't remember enough of the book at this point to not make glaring mistakes in my justifications (as above).

I also think I'm kind of blending the movie together with the book - in the movie, you don't see the man's inner life at all, which flattens out their portrayal by extension. She and him are both kind of inscrutable actors in the film, and the weird cultish rape scene in particular makes it feel like they are simply agents controlled by large immovable forces, where gender becomes less and less a tool of the discourse.
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Postby mondays » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:35 pm

cooly wrote:i feel like it's pretty important that the world he's trapped in in the hole resembles ordinary life for men wrt the unceasing labor and the woman at home, and i don't think it's ungenerous to think about the role of the woman in that light.

the woman also works with him and was working there before he arrived.

there is some gendered stuff but i dunno, the book is an existentialist story. i don't really think it needs to be read through gender. we work, have sex, make "a home", make relationships with people because we are trapped :barney:
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Postby cooly » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:52 pm

the woman lies to him and assists in his trapping. she also gets raped by him.
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Postby chowder julius » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:07 pm

idk if my feminism is broken or what but i didn't really think that rape scene was especially shocking. it was pretty brief and i guess i read it as making a half dozen other points besides rape? offering like zero perspective or insight from the woman makes it fairly easy to read over that i guess! i also didn't read the rape scene in the sheltering skyToggle Spoiler as a rape at all. hmmmmm
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Postby mondays » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:40 pm

cooly wrote:the woman lies to him and assists in his trapping. she also gets raped by him.

the rape scene is harder to defend as the result of the "trauma of being trapped" or whatever but that's how i read it :oops: i think the book's good
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Postby cooly » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:52 pm

oh yea, i don't mean to argue that everyone should hate the book. i guess i was just curious on cj's thoughts on those aspects and i felt like i had to defend my reading a bit when people responded. i plan on reading more kobo abe eventually. certain aspects of the book detracted from my enjoyment of it, but yea i didn't mean to take over the thread about it.
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Postby chowder julius » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:55 pm

no it's very cool to talk about books please don't stop :D
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Postby deadbass » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:13 pm

I really really recommend The Face of Another as another Abe book. It’s really crazy and interesting and explores some pretty compelling ideas.
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Postby mudd » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:18 pm

i enjoyed the kangaroo notebook, but it's really quite different than woman in the dunes.

the later of which i read long enough ago that i can't say if i would side with cooly or not, but this reminds me of my surprise about CJ's reaction to sheltering sky.

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Postby ripersnifle » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:35 pm

been reading a bunch of Kittler for school. really enjoying it.
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Postby theta » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:49 am

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Postby Kenny » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:00 am

Taking a break from "heavy" stuff to read:

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It's actually an omnibus of the 3rd and 4th book in a series, by P.C. Hodgell which is very good. To describe the series it may sound a little generic but the writing is good and the world building is so fun that it's a page turner.

The Kencyr books, beginning with God Stalk, focus on the three peoples of the Kencyrath, Highborn (leaders), Kendar (artisans and soldiers) and Arrin-Ken (cat-like judges). They were brought together by the Three-Faced God to oppose the threat of chaos called Perimal Darkling 30,000 years before the events of the books. For eons the Kencyrath have waged a long retreat, seemingly abandoned by their god, awaiting the birth of the promised Tyr-Ridan, the three who would lead the final battle against Perimal Darkling. Three thousand years have passed since the Kencyrath retreated to Rathillien after a devastating betrayal. Much diminished, they remain outsiders to the native powers of Rathillien.


These two together bring the page count to 1000 :-S but it's fun just to have fun reading a book. The author (a woman) has complained repeatedly about the big boobed lady on the cover but it's a Baen book....
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Postby incoherent grunting » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:20 am

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Uhhhh it's.... good
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Postby dmitry » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:36 am

been goin through

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so many different sources have recommended this. it ties up a lot of what i've been thinking about, re: top-down control and complex systems, but also re: modernist urban planning and societal projects
learned so far: le courbusier is an asshole
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Postby cooly » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:46 am

dmitry would u rec that book for a leftist architect (my girlfriend) who knows a lot about city planning etc or do you think it would be too basic for her

it seems down her alley but its hard to gauge how much of it would be things she already knows
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Postby deadbass » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:51 am

dmitry wrote:learned so far: le courbusier is an asshole

le corbusier on the fall of France wrote:"Money, the Jews (who are partly responsible), Freemasonry, they will all get their just reward. These shameful fortresses will be dismantled. They dominated everything... We are in the hands of a winning invader, whose attitude could be crushing. If the conditions are truthful, Hitler could crown his life's work by a grand act: the cleaning up of Europe."
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Postby dmitry » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:02 pm

cooly wrote:dmitry would u rec that book for a leftist architect (my girlfriend) who knows a lot about city planning etc or do you think it would be too basic for her

it seems down her alley but its hard to gauge how much of it would be things she already knows


only one chapter is about high modernism in architecture, the rest is about similar top-down stuff states imposing national languages/standards/ways to farm
i guess urban designers understand this stuff better than anyone because they learned it the hard way but this thing is a must-read. he's a good writer, too
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Postby cooly » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:08 pm

cool, thanks! her b-day is coming up next month so this'll be a good add-on gift :)
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Postby Dead_Wizard » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:01 pm

cooly wrote:dmitry would u rec that book for a leftist architect (my girlfriend) who knows a lot about city planning etc or do you think it would be too basic for her

it seems down her alley but its hard to gauge how much of it would be things she already knows


I'd recommend The Edifice Complex by Deyan Sudjic
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Postby Messenger » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:47 pm

dmitry wrote:been goin through

Image

so many different sources have recommended this. it ties up a lot of what i've been thinking about, re: top-down control and complex systems, but also re: modernist urban planning and societal projects
learned so far: le courbusier is an asshole


I just read something about this the other day and thought it sounded like an intriguing topic, but I'm curious, what sort of political perspective is this author coming from?
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Postby walt whitman » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:00 pm

ripersnifle wrote:been reading a bunch of Kittler for school. really enjoying it.

mark bn hansen is an intriguing counterpoint to kittler on media and the digital turn

particularly hansen's

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Postby manunderer » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:02 pm

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Postby chowder julius » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:08 pm

i finished the rosmarie waldrop and have no idea what i should read next. maybe another ferrante? but i think i need a break from heavy books. does anyone have a rec for something fun yet literary, ideally less than 200 pages?
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Postby atomicbombshell » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:16 pm

The Dud Avocado by Elaine Dundy. She's a fucking riot.
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Postby chowder julius » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:28 pm

atomicbombshell wrote:The Dud Avocado by Elaine Dundy. She's a fucking riot.

this looks great. thanks abs!
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Postby scarsdalevibe » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:33 pm

Somehow I forgot that there was a new Pullman trilogy coming out. Next week?! There goes a whole week of good night sleeps
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Postby Barthes Starr » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:25 pm

ripersnifle wrote:been reading a bunch of Kittler for school. really enjoying it.


hey me too
what kinda school you doin, ripersnifle?
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Postby mission » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:42 am

atomicbombshell wrote:The Dud Avocado by Elaine Dundy. She's a fucking riot.


Seconded.

Groucho said it made him laugh, scream and guffaw. I merely laughed but also got mildly freaked out - as I often do - at more proof that sex wasn't invented in the 60s.
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Postby madness and chaos » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:28 am

fuck yeah, love drug rock tales, gotta read that nolan

and i still need that mudd club book. i waited forever for one of those
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