making a strong commitment to lose weight

[badhat]

it just mutated into an alternate form. But it's a fairly beneficial form so I'm content to live with that.

i think this is pretty common among people who live with compulsive disorders, you rarely hear about people beating them (short of serious medication) usualyl they just channel them into useful or productive behaviors... my dad channeled into distance running when he sobered up, i use the bike, etc...

[Savage]

yeah i mean you try telling a poor person they should eat a can of cold green beans instead of a piping hot double cheeseburger - not everyone has an access to fridges/microwaves at work

plus, if you live in a real bad area of town where you dont have regular access to a grocery store, that stuff is a lot more expensive than it is at kroger or whatever

i get what youre saying but its not that simple

[mich]

Yeah, I'm looking at upenn. I won't be at any sort of interview stage until next year but if I do I will definitely hit you up.

http://www.stumptuous.com/workout-2 - if you do this workout and change it to three sets of 5-8 (+warm-up sets beforehand), you can be in and out of the gym in like 30-40 minutes.

[tricky]

It's not that fatty foods are addicting, it's that they are widely available on every street corner and are often the most cheap and affordable food anywhere. I don't know why anyone here would be high and mighty over their nutritional eating when healthy food is inaccessible for a large part of our population.

Yeah, this really is a huge problem. I remember being at Wendy's once and got a salad to try to be on the healthy side. When looking at the salad dressing nutritional information, I noticed that it contained as many calories as fries. It's so messed up. There should be some sort of cap implemented for how many calories one item of food can contain.

[badhat]

its certainly complicated, but the complication has more to do with lack of education and a surfeit of marketing pressure than with real access.

ive been poor, my wifes been VERY poor, was raised VERY poor, and if you know how to, you can eat responsibly for little money. if your position is that we need better education about nutrition in public schools, i'm on board, and hell if the position sis that public schools should have healthier lunches, i'm there too.

there are more healthy options in the world than jsut canned green beans and its dishonest to reduce my post to that.

[badhat]

i'm not discounting access, but its a grossly exaggerated myth that healthy options dont exist. just because they arent as attractive as the unhealthy ones.. i mean thats true at any income level.

[Savage]

i mean, i dont think the government needs to step in and regulate fast food, but there are some pretty worthless psa's out there. i think they could spread that budget around and be like "look, you can make pretty much whatever you want at home and it wouldnt be as bad as a fast food meal"

the american cheese/soybean oil based sauces are deliciously evil, but man are they evil

[Savage]

there are more healthy options in the world than jsut canned green beans and its dishonest to reduce my post to that.

in the world? yeah. as easy to get to in a bad neighborhood as a mcchicken? no, not at all

[badhat]

no one said its easy

its easier for me to buy shitty food than good food too. i have to put some effort into it.

[Snatch]

in the small city i just moved from, literally the entire southeastern quadrant of town -- i.e., the poor, primarily black/latino, gang-controlled area -- lacks a grocery store. nobody will open one; not enough money. the truly impoverished people often don't have cars to get close to downtown for food.

that's not an excuse, but it's a little more difficult for them to buy good food than it is for you, and silly to conflate the two

[Savage]

yeah i mean its much easier for you to make that change than the migrant laborer standing outside of the 7-11 for 12 hours a day hoping to get work

the chinese food place on the corner has 4 chicken wings + fries for 2.99. im legitimately curious, what would you suggest he buy from the little bodega on the corner or the 7-11 that he could eat for 3 bucks? shit, a can of green beans is probably close to two.

you can make food in advance, store it in your office fridge, and reheat it. dude on the corner cant carry a tupperware around with him all day

[badhat]

look of course there are places in this country that are desperately underserved and exploited, and thats a legitimate public health crisis.

but most of the poor in this country who eat badly do not do so because of lack of access, they do so because of marketing and lack of education and (just like the middle class) laziness/disinterest, and my comments here have been a response to the suggestion that eating well is borgie, and that "a large portion" of people in this country cant afford to eat well, which is patently bullshit.

[Snatch]

we agree, then

sorry

[badhat]

kisses

[Savage]

the complication has more to do with lack of education and a surfeit of marketing pressure than with real access.

yeah, im just not sure i agree with this, but we're basically on the same page

[Merciel]

In Philly there are street carts that sell fruit salad and smoothies right next to the ones selling cheesesteaks and egg sandwiches. West Philly/University City have tons of street carts with reasonably healthy options, and they're street carts, so competitively priced to other street carts. A fruit salad is anywhere from $2 to $5 depending on size. The city's been looking into getting carts that sell fruits and vegetables to be prepared at home, too, but I don't know if any of those are out yet (I haven't seen any, but they're geared toward the lower-income areas, so they might be out and I just don't go there so I don't know).

Anyway I agree with badhat that while urban poverty is an issue, it doesn't come anywhere near explaining the problem nation-wide, and it's not even that huge a problem in a city that's reasonably walkable or has decent public transportation (LA is an entirely different planet from NYC or Philly in this respect).

[free range lettuce]

the area around temple JUST got a grocery store...like, it just opened in the past few months. before that the only places around there to buy food were carts (and yes, some of them sell fruit, but not veggies), the seasonal farmer's market (one day per week) and convenience stores/prepared foods places.

so i think access IS a problem in a lot of underserved neighborhoods.

[badhat]

i dont think anyone disagrees, i just think theres some disagreement about whether really desperately "underserved neighborhoods" are a really useful barometer for the plight of the poor in general or if theyre sort of an outlier...

[badhat]

I don't know why anyone here would be high and mighty over their nutritional eating when healthy food is inaccessible for a large part of our population.

remembering that this post and specifically the bolded part, are what inspired this discussion and what i was responding too.

[Savage]

oh, i didnt know i was inadvertently defending a radical windfucker proclaimation

[mich]

Yeah, there are lots of overweight people where I work and most of them drive to work so access isn't the issue.

I did used to live two streets over from the projects and there was no nearby grocery store so that situation does happen, though at least in that neighborhood there was a bus route that was pretty easy to take to a grocery store.

[Savage]

yeah i mean, i get that you can take a bus to the grocery store, but in a lot of neighborhoods, that bus would pass several fast food restaurants before getting to the grocery store, and that is fucked up

[Merciel]

in a lot of neighborhoods, that bus would pass several fast food restaurants before getting to the grocery store, and that is fucked up

I agree it's fucked up, but it's not like there's some nefarious mastermind who decreed there should be a McDonalds on every block and no grocery store within a mile. The sellers reflect what people are buying. Capitalism in action!

...which is why the street carts are, IMO, an excellent solution to this particular problem, assuming they get off the ground (and, again, maybe they already have and I just haven't heard about it). Low start-up costs, financially viable even with a fairly modest customer base, and easily moved from one block to the next until the seller finds the exact best location for his wares. Plus the vendor can chain his cart to a car and get the hell out of the badlands before sundown. Not a small consideration in North Philly.

[badhat]

right

its a market problem

the solution to which is education, probably.

i'm not particularly optimistic about turning around the dietary habits of the country in anything shorter than a generation, but the best first step is probably beefing up nutrition/health education in public schools, as well as consumer education, of course public schools in underserved communities are a disaster already so good luck with that...

[Savage]

yeah im not making any "nefarious mastermind" claims, but to say people should take the bus, i mean, that takes an hour longer than going to the popeyes thats right next to the bus stop. yeah, its possible, but its a fuckload easier for me to go to the grocery store than it is for someone that has to take the bus.

ive always envisioned a non-profit organization that brings costco food to bad neighborhoods.

[legibet]

My family never got on me about weight. My anorexia was 100% self-inflicted and was all about the stereotypical perfectionist need for control. Living on diet Pepsi and celery for weeks was a test of willpower and I would prevail. That kind of thing.

The anorexia went away once I graduated but I'm pretty convinced that it didn't really vanish, it just mutated into an alternate form. But it's a fairly beneficial form so I'm content to live with that.

(edit: also, mich, if you do come to town I want to know too!)

I'm curious, did you know how thin you looked? I had something like this in high school, but for years I assumed it wasn't anorexia because I was very aware of how thin I was. All the talk around anorexia at the time explained it as a body image issue, as a result of women being convinced that they were fat. It might have started with this a little bit, especially since I thought the whole heroin chic thing looked so cool, but I think it morphed into something else entirely. After a while I thought I looked great, and thought the waifish look really suited me, so it wasn't about the image anymore. It became entirely about the control. I'd do hundreds of sit-ups and feel so disciplined, maybe feel hungry afterward and marvel at my restraint. Even better I'd poke at my ribs and feel so full of self-control.

[atomicbombshell]

My family never got on me about weight. My anorexia was 100% self-inflicted and was all about the stereotypical perfectionist need for control. Living on diet Pepsi and celery for weeks was a test of willpower and I would prevail. That kind of thing.

The anorexia went away once I graduated but I'm pretty convinced that it didn't really vanish, it just mutated into an alternate form. But it's a fairly beneficial form so I'm content to live with that.

(edit: also, mich, if you do come to town I want to know too!)

ditto here, though mine was more bulimia than anorexia. i've managed to not obsess over it for the past six months or so, which is a huge accomplishment for me. as much as i try not to calorie-count daily, it's still a struggle to get out of that mindset.

[Savage]

i feel like such an asshole for being attracted to skinny women when i hear them talk about what they have to do to maintain that weight

[Merciel]

I'm curious, did you know how thin you looked?

Oh yeah. I remember it was like this huge moment of triumph when I could see the entire outline of my hip bones. Not just the blade part that pokes up in front, but the whole thing. Victory!

I've told this story before but that was pretty much the exact same time that I was getting recruited by modeling agencies (because of how thin I was; this was not a contributing factor in why I was so thin), which is looooolll/so sad. Agents who were scouting on campus would give me cards on the sidewalk, and meanwhile I was passing out in hallways on the way to the laundry room. America you're the best.

[mites]

My family never got on me about weight. My anorexia was 100% self-inflicted and was all about the stereotypical perfectionist need for control. Living on diet Pepsi and celery for weeks was a test of willpower and I would prevail. That kind of thing.

The anorexia went away once I graduated but I'm pretty convinced that it didn't really vanish, it just mutated into an alternate form. But it's a fairly beneficial form so I'm content to live with that.

(edit: also, mich, if you do come to town I want to know too!)

I'm curious, did you know how thin you looked? I had something like this in high school, but for years I assumed it wasn't anorexia because I was very aware of how thin I was. All the talk around anorexia at the time explained it as a body image issue, as a result of women being convinced that they were fat. It might have started with this a little bit, especially since I thought the whole heroin chic thing looked so cool, but I think it morphed into something else entirely. After a while I thought I looked great, and thought the waifish look really suited me, so it wasn't about the image anymore. It became entirely about the control. I'd do hundreds of sit-ups and feel so disciplined, maybe feel hungry afterward and marvel at my restraint. Even better I'd poke at my ribs and feel so full of self-control.

with me I definitely didn't realize how thin I was and I also celebrated my restraint. I began to like feeling hungry because to me feeling hungry and not doing a damn thing about it and then going for a run was me asserting myself over my body. This really changed about halfway through college when I started drinking and I became a binge eater and drank about 5 days a week. Now I'm trying to get back into shape and lose some weight but be healthy about it and it seems to be working so far.

My ex has a lot of problems too and this stuff always just horrifies me and makes me feel awful