Can we admit that Obama has a really big stick?

[Snatch]

my girlfriend's dad is sorta borderline tea-party sometimes but he's a huge history nut and man they really pissed him off w/ that TJ thing

[chimp_]

what I want to know is what the fuck are we going to do about taking education control away from all these fucking states that won't teach evolution/science. I'd argue that education is by far our biggest problem.

yeah it's huge. do any texas boarders want to weigh in on THIS

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

edit: mouse pad beat me

wow

[Frank]

i bet obama would be a great mod

[blurst of times]

i think the main argument against it is that the president is an enormously important SYMBOL, and that will never change. he (or she) makes very few decisions, but that doesn't really matter

one of the frustrating things about his presidency so far is his willingness to delegate so much power to congress. conservatives were able to slander healthcare so effectively because no one really knew what it was. only once obama outlined exactly what he wanted to see in a bill towards the end did they finally pass the thing. he needs to be more forceful and clear about what he's looking for with legislation.

that said, aside from the executive power expansion stuff, which is terrible, I feel like he's pretty much done what he's campaigned on so far.

[powderfinger]

i don't buy that the public option was unpopular. in polls it was unpopular when it wasn't explained, then popular when people knew what it meant

The popularity of the public option was of virtually no importance once the left seized on it as their #1 priority, framing a bill with a strong public option as the most liberal of possible outcomes in the eyes of the political press. Lieberman was going to get his pound of flesh in the most painful way possible (remember he singlehandedly killed the Medicare buy-in compromise that the rest of the moderates liked, which was a great idea on its own terms) and Nelson, Lincoln, Landrieu, etc. were always bound to arbitrarily find some way to move the bill to the right in exchange for their vote. Obama has no leverage over any of them whatsoever, so the public option was dead on arrival. That it stayed "alive" for so long is actually, in my opinion, an example of good strategy on the part of Pelosi and Reid because it took heat off the rest of the bill.

Maybe if the netroots had decided that free abortions was their ideal endgame the public option would have made it in.

[Feech La Manna]

what I want to know is what the fuck are we going to do about taking education control away from all these fucking states that won't teach evolution/science. I'd argue that education is by far our biggest problem.

yeah it's huge. do any texas boarders want to weigh in on THIS

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

edit: mouse pad beat me

wow

Reminds me of the Conservative Bible Project

http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project

[Feech La Manna]

Really though if they're trying to indoctrinate high schoolers textbooks probably aren't going to be doing the trick

[Snatch]

The Conservative Bible Project is a project utilizing the "best of the public" to render God's word into modern English without liberal translation distortions.[1] A Colbert Report interview featured this project.[2]

[texasme]

i don't buy that the public option was unpopular. in polls it was unpopular when it wasn't explained, then popular when people knew what it meant

The popularity of the public option was of virtually no importance once the left seized on it as their #1 priority, framing a bill with a strong public option as the most liberal of possible outcomes in the eyes of the political press. Lieberman was going to get his pound of flesh in the most painful way possible (remember he singlehandedly killed the Medicare buy-in compromise that the rest of the moderates liked, which was a great idea on its own terms) and Nelson, Lincoln, Landrieu, etc. were always bound to arbitrarily find some way to move the bill to the right in exchange for their vote. Obama has no leverage over any of them whatsoever, so the public option was dead on arrival. That it stayed "alive" for so long is actually, in my opinion, an example of good strategy on the part of Pelosi and Reid because it took heat off the rest of the bill.

Maybe if the netroots had decided that free abortions was their ideal endgame the public option would have made it in.

you forgot to mention that lieberman himself supported and even suggested it as an alternative to the public option, which the democratic leadership and the president never once pointed out

the netroots had nothing to do with this, the whole outcome was planned out in advance. the administration never once publicly pressured lieberman, but jumped all over kucinich for airing (legitimate) doubts that the bill did nothing to reduce the deficit, which was a stated goal of the whole fucking thing

the obstinacy of public opinion vis a vis the myths around healthcare reform (e.g. continuing to believe in death panels and rationing, even when both had been conclusively disproven by the msm) made it tough for anyone to get anything through with public opinion on their side, but the administration and the senate leadership made it clear that they weren't willing to take a real political risk for the public option, even when it was obviously the best policy

[wheeljack]

what I want to know is what the fuck are we going to do about taking education control away from all these fucking states that won't teach evolution/science. I'd argue that education is by far our biggest problem.

yeah it's huge. do any texas boarders want to weigh in on THIS

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html

edit: mouse pad beat me

wow

yeah i mean thank fuck theyre not leninists

[chimp_]

is it really a good idea to have curriculum decisions made by locally-elected people holding their positions for four years

i mean it would seem like that kind of thing should be as far as possible removed from party politics. tempted to say it should be in the hands of an apolitical civil service organisation perhaps with a governmental committee of oversight, i don't know if that would be at all feasible though

[wheeljack]

is it really a good idea to have curriculum decisions made by locally-elected people holding their positions for four years

i mean it would seem like that kind of thing should be as far as possible removed from party politics. tempted to say it should be in the hands of an apolitical civil service organisation perhaps with a governmental committee of oversight, i don't know if that would be at all feasible though

the people's apolitical nongovernmental civil service is the deepest red

[mcwop23]

I wonder what would happen if education reform was put into the hands of academics.

[kitties]

I wouldn't say he's sucky, the guy just came to be President at the wrong time. He's alright with me. Also, here's a list of things he's already done since coming into office, it's pretty impressive if you ask me.

http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-has-president-obama-accomplished.html

[wheeljack]

I wonder what would happen if education reform was put into the hands of academics.

the peoples homosocial agenda is the homosocialist homosocial agenda

[chimp_]

is it really a good idea to have curriculum decisions made by locally-elected people holding their positions for four years

i mean it would seem like that kind of thing should be as far as possible removed from party politics. tempted to say it should be in the hands of an apolitical civil service organisation perhaps with a governmental committee of oversight, i don't know if that would be at all feasible though

the people's apolitical nongovernmental civil service is the deepest red

haha i guess this is accurate

[mcwop23]

i'm not averse to that

edit: to wheeljack

[sordid affair]

one of the biggest challenges of education policy is that it's not about a lack of data. there's an ENORMOUS amount of data out there, but people spin it in innumerable different ways. after an undergrad of anthropology i began to think that quantitative research might be more useful than qualitative, but i really don't think so anymore

also, ther'es very little new under the sun in ed policy. it's cyclical. people are touting ideas that were huge in the 70s

[sordid affair]

nathan is the single best troll

[Snatch]

guys can we take a little detour to discuss newt gingrich's boarding of the wingnut express

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/05/ ... banes.html

[texasme]

guys can we take a little detour to discuss newt gingrich's boarding of the wingnut express

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/05/ ... banes.html

boarding? dude's was the conductor for years

...conductor...NATHAAAAAN

[sordid affair]

he's been on it for a long time. he's one of the worst because he's articulate

edit: sigh. texasme beat me. this thread just isn't giving me the right opportunities to be original

[wheeljack]

nathan is the single best troll

his reagan praise made me "guh" but im finding it hard to disagree with a lot of his posts, even though i worry that anti-obama sentiment will reach the nihilist fever-pitch of anti-blair lunkheadedness, forever burned in my mind as thom yorke singing "you lied to us tony" to an audience doubtlessly benefing from labour LEA grants, high minimum wage, on-going free health, and a bunch of other stuff that wouldve been unthinkable in 87-96, inc many services that wouldve been scrapped under the tories

pre-iraq war even

[Broncobama]

Man, I'm not anti-Obama, I'm pro-Obama.

[wheeljack]

Man, I'm not anti-Obama, I'm pro-Obama.

Proob Ama? take it the star wars thread, geeklord

[grammatron]

also, ther'es very little new under the sun in ed policy. it's cyclical. people are touting ideas that were huge in the 70s

Also, some things that would definitely improve the system are pretty much off the table, ie a longer school year, longer days, etc.

[stochasm]

i bet obama would be a great mod

As long as he doesn't delete jerkstore threads.

[mouse pad]

also, ther'es very little new under the sun in ed policy. it's cyclical. people are touting ideas that were huge in the 70s

Also, some things that would definitely improve the system are pretty much off the table, ie a longer school year, longer days, etc.

better pay for teachers

[Slickster]

my brother told me that my dad will walk in the room and see b-rock on fox news and say "put a tie on meat"

[sordid affair]

better pay could happen if we had the will