Can we admit that Obama has a really big stick?

[fox]

yup

[Spartacus]

we can't agree that obama is a sucky president

not me anyway!!!

[Spartacus]

NOT ME ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[okl]

he is just really ineffective at his job

[fox]

clinton
bush I
obama
reagan
GWB

[Frank]

lol

[Chyet]

And, of course, we could afford to pay teachers more if we'd do something about the fucking horribly bloated DOD budget, but you know, that's pussy talk.

someone was bitching that Obama only wanted to give the military a 1 percent pay raise, which I haven't even verified.
"dude it's a recession and you make 30k a year, don't pay rent, and take 20 smoke breaks a day"

[Chyet]

i didn't mention that he didn't have a degree because that seemed mean and it also woulda just been me describing myself a bit too much(except I actually work some long hours)

[Spartacus]

he's a centrist who is getting centrist things accomplished

this sort of pisses me off, as a non-centrist, but you can't argue with the fact that he's gotten a shitload done that comports with his worldview

[Chyet]

i guess what I'm saying that the troops are overpaid. But not me, i want that new Lincoln car

[Spartacus]

i like sex

[Spartacus]

but not as much as i used to

[fox]

I don't think obama's a centrist per se, just a pragmatist

at least not in the way that clinton was, what with the New Democrat agenda

unlikely that obama would have pushed welfare reform or said something like "the era of big government is over"

[handsome brute]

And, of course, we could afford to pay teachers more if we'd do something about the fucking horribly bloated DOD budget, but you know, that's pussy talk.

Defense is 15% of the Federal Budget. Interest on outstanding debt is 14%. Should probably do something about that interest payment ...

[Spartacus]

I don't think obama's a centrist per se, just a pragmatist

at least not in the way that clinton was, what with the New Democrat agenda

unlikely that obama would have pushed welfare reform or said something like "the era of big government is over"

ok maybe you're right.

he would do more if he could. he's getting done what he thinks he can get done.

anyhow, i still like the guy a lot.

[Spartacus]

And, of course, we could afford to pay teachers more if we'd do something about the fucking horribly bloated DOD budget, but you know, that's pussy talk.

Defense is 15% of the Federal Budget. Interest on outstanding debt is 14%. Should probably do something about that interest payment ...

dumbass

[fox]

on balance I do, too

I'd like him more if his FP was paying better dividends, but oh well

[Frank]

oh god welfare reform. obama wouldnt have pushed such a shitfuck clusterstorm because he's not a Clinton-level asshole .

[handsome brute]

the horse wants more interest payments

[Spartacus]

oh god welfare reform. obama wouldnt have pushed such a shitfuck clusterstorm because he's not a Clinton-level asshole .

it wasn't a bad idea in principle. clinton was wrong to believe that it was anything but a ruse.

[powderfinger]

i don't buy that the public option was unpopular. in polls it was unpopular when it wasn't explained, then popular when people knew what it meant

The popularity of the public option was of virtually no importance once the left seized on it as their #1 priority, framing a bill with a strong public option as the most liberal of possible outcomes in the eyes of the political press. Lieberman was going to get his pound of flesh in the most painful way possible (remember he singlehandedly killed the Medicare buy-in compromise that the rest of the moderates liked, which was a great idea on its own terms) and Nelson, Lincoln, Landrieu, etc. were always bound to arbitrarily find some way to move the bill to the right in exchange for their vote. Obama has no leverage over any of them whatsoever, so the public option was dead on arrival. That it stayed "alive" for so long is actually, in my opinion, an example of good strategy on the part of Pelosi and Reid because it took heat off the rest of the bill.

Maybe if the netroots had decided that free abortions was their ideal endgame the public option would have made it in.

you forgot to mention that lieberman himself supported and even suggested it as an alternative to the public option, which the democratic leadership and the president never once pointed out

the netroots had nothing to do with this, the whole outcome was planned out in advance. the administration never once publicly pressured lieberman, but jumped all over kucinich for airing (legitimate) doubts that the bill did nothing to reduce the deficit, which was a stated goal of the whole fucking thing

the obstinacy of public opinion vis a vis the myths around healthcare reform (e.g. continuing to believe in death panels and rationing, even when both had been conclusively disproven by the msm) made it tough for anyone to get anything through with public opinion on their side, but the administration and the senate leadership made it clear that they weren't willing to take a real political risk for the public option, even when it was obviously the best policy

Dude, are you kidding. The health care bill sans public option is one of the biggest political risks in modern history. There's just not any way the leadership was going to will it to be passed with the public option. And if they did, it would have been an empty shell that would have had almost no impact. A strong public option with reimbursement rates pegged to Medicare - the public option that would have really mattered - barely had majority support in the Senate, and maybe not at all. The one that made it into the bill Reid brought to the floor was barely better than none at all.

The votes just weren't there.

[Shalabi]

Wake up America! Various generalizations about the Constitution!

[Self Destructive Zone]

kennedy wasn't a very good president. lbj is the best president post fdr

kudos for civil rights, but seriously the vietnam clusterfuck makes him a pretty unexcuasable pick. i don't see why it isn't clinton. he didn't have the challenges lbj did and he didn't get as much through, but he also didn;t fuck up tremendously which is about all you can ask from a politician

[mites]

yea vietnam was awful and he certainly made it worse, but kennedy has some fingers in that honey jar too. but the great society and civil rights are both amazing accomplishments

[frenchkick]

i think he is doing a pretty good job considering the state of the world right now.

[VHGisdead]

is LBJ the most bipolar president in terms of good and bad things accomplished/undertaken

[Broncobama]

Nah, FDR splits evenly.

[Self Destructive Zone]

And, of course, we could afford to pay teachers more if we'd do something about the fucking horribly bloated DOD budget, but you know, that's pussy talk.

stop trying to take money away from me, they already backed out of paying off my student loans

[Self Destructive Zone]

yea vietnam was awful and he certainly made it worse, but kennedy has some fingers in that honey jar too. but the great society and civil rights are both amazing accomplishments

no doubt kennedy had his fingers in that honey jar. while we're at it the kennedy tax cut right before the great society program helped to run deficits bad enough to get us off the gold standard

[xgeom]

the corporatism is what kills me

i knew he'd be more moderate than i'd hoped, but his gleeful willingness, or insistence, on letting corporate america do the heavy lifting for his policy goals is detestable and far less than i'd hoped

yeah, this is it for me, too.