Twin Peaks Season 3 (May 21st)

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:06 pm

yah i figured i missed something there
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Postby tricksforchips » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:18 pm

manvstrees wrote:
internethandle wrote:Simply love to appreciate narratively forwarding violence against women


can we murder this take y/n

No. I think it's important to discuss since it has a huge place in this series and all of Lynch's work.
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:19 pm

not engaging with violence towards women in lynch is idiotic, "woman in trouble" is literally his self-proclaimed definitive trope and youre just gonna elide it as a bad take?
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Postby naturemorte » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:31 pm

the violence against women (and general mother/whore, bitch/victim dynamics) in season 3 made it really, really hard to take for me
people want to celebrate this thing because it's a massive, singular, visionary work at a time when things like that just don't happen, but we're all postponing a reckoning that's going to have to happen at some point. i generally feel that the reason we want to be done with that take is because no one's made the argument effectively yet, not that the premise itself is flawed.
but then again people have been voting vertigo to #1 on the movie lists, which is also unacceptable for the same reasons, so maybe that reckoning is a long ways off still
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Postby NegativeCapability » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:40 pm

These violence against women takes are seriously fucking stupid.
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Postby forest design » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:46 pm

Please lets not do this...

...again...

...for like the fourth time
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Postby light rail coyote » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:52 pm

naturemorte wrote:the violence against women (and general mother/whore, bitch/victim dynamics) in season 3 made it really, really hard to take for me
people want to celebrate this thing because it's a massive, singular, visionary work at a time when things like that just don't happen, but we're all postponing a reckoning that's going to have to happen at some point. i generally feel that the reason we want to be done with that take is because no one's made the argument effectively yet, not that the premise itself is flawed.
but then again people have been voting vertigo to #1 on the movie lists, which is also unacceptable for the same reasons, so maybe that reckoning is a long ways off still


i'm not sold on the idea that twin peaks uses violence against women in an exploitative way but i do agree that part of my skepticism is that i've never seen that argument made in a compelling way. it's usually just a list of "here's a bunch of times where there was violence against women" with no examination of context.

also disagree that this isn't worth examining- it's a major theme of lynch's work and as such is fair game.
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:53 pm

now now, lets not examine this fucked up trope that cudgels us over and over again throughout this persons entire body of work.. its silly
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:58 pm

wollogallu wrote:not engaging with violence towards women in lynch is idiotic, "woman in trouble" is literally his self-proclaimed definitive trope and youre just gonna elide it as a bad take?


im sorry was it stated this way nah it wasn't
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:59 pm

it has been in this thread, many times

on this very page!
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:00 pm

in the one i was responding to?
no.

guys can we not
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:00 pm

we can not

also we can
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:00 pm

but yeah we better not, bad things could happen!
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:01 pm

i was missing some sarcasm in the post i first responded to, but there's a way to talk about this stuff outside of hot take land
it's very rarely been pulled off in this thread though.
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:04 pm

i just plain dont get "guys can we not"'ing the impulse to discuss the problematic of misogyny/violence towards women in lynchs work
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Postby light rail coyote » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:04 pm

i can see that criticism in lynch's other works- i've never been a huge fan of wild at heart for that reason- but i've always found twin peaks at its best to be an incredibly thoughtful rumination on the nature of the personal and societal effects of abuse and trauma and the ways in which those who are complicit in the cycle refuse to come to terms with their own complicity.

one scene from the original that's always stuck with me was ben's insistence that he loved laura even though he's one of the biggest drivers of laura's abuse.
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:06 pm

I LOVE YOU BUT IVE CHOSEN THE BLACKIE
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:06 pm

wollogallu wrote:i just plain dont get "guys can we not"'ing the impulse to discuss the problematic of misogyny/violence towards women in lynchs work


well the phrase "narratively forwarding" was used, dingus
so we can prob try doing it well but some takes are clearly in the "can we not, again" category due to them mostly feeling like amateur hr loud/shallow criticisms
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:08 pm

are you steamed? you seem steamed for some reason
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:08 pm

(plus i think it's very clear in how and why it is problematic, exactly as problematic as it should be, and i dont find any of it misogynist outside of SAY FUCK ME
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:09 pm

wollogallu wrote:are you steamed? you seem steamed for some reason


i don't.......feel steamed?
tone is tough, its the internet

edit: sorry about dingus, thought that was pretty light
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:12 pm

ok good :)
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Postby OKterrific » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:33 pm

wollogallu wrote:not engaging with violence towards women in lynch is idiotic, "woman in trouble" is literally his self-proclaimed definitive trope and youre just gonna elide it as a bad take?


pretty sure you're addressing mvt here but just to be clear I was referring to the "wow can't believe Lynch isn't an IRL piece of shit" take
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Postby naturemorte » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:52 pm

to put it as simply as i possibly can (would like to write more but i'm busy writing other shit): "twin peaks" is set in a universe of power which is organized around the traffic in women's suffering. it's the central logic that links disparate worlds and is the engine of just about every economy the show represents. the show is also deeply self reflexive, as i tried to explain in my post many pages ago, in that it reproduces the relationship between author&text/spectator&text in the relationship between worlds. to some extent, judy and bob and the fireman are all avatars for both the viewer and the author of the show. it's about, among many other things, what it means to create characters in order to watch them suffer, or to participate in a culture that is organized around the circulation of that violence.

which is to say, i think lynch is very self-aware about the place of representations of violence against women in media culture, although part of the brilliance of the show is in the way it transmutes that awareness into something very original and strange and complex. but at the center of everything he's made since lost highway is the function of women as currency within economies of spectacle and the suffering and trauma of being put in that position. just because his work is about that and aware of that doesn't mean that we shouldn't interrogate it--it's exactly why takes that DON'T address that question are totally fucking useless.
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:54 pm

naturemorte wrote:just because his work is about that and aware of that doesn't mean that we shouldn't interrogate it--it's exactly why takes that DON'T address that question are totally fucking useless.



yep!
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:55 pm

you have to interrogate it well

i mean you don't HAVE to
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Postby naturemorte » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:57 pm

like, it's completely valid within the terms of "twin peaks" to suggest that the show is ultimately a grand allegory for the failure of our myths of redemption to compensate for the violence upon which those myths are founded. which, i think, makes it totally legitimate to say, "i have a problem with TP:TR because I recognize that it is unable to validate itself against the charges it itself makes against its own reasons for existing."
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Postby naturemorte » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:59 pm

manvstrees wrote:you have to interrogate it well

i mean you don't HAVE to

i agree, i would love to rattle off another 5000 words about it, and clearly somebody needs to

edit: 6000 posts baby
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Postby wollogallu » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:00 pm

manvstrees wrote:you have to interrogate it well


posts that offer "can we not" only serve to inhibit people from trying
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Postby manvstrees » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:01 pm

wollogallu wrote:
manvstrees wrote:you have to interrogate it well


posts that offer "can we not" only serve to inhibit people from trying


tough
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