independence day has some of the worst special effects

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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 1:34 pm

it's easy to forget just how bad some of the work is

and some of it is rather good too. the ships breaking atmosphere, the life size practical stuff, some of that is really good. but like 75% of it is pretty rough shit. the canyon dogfight between will smith and that alien fighter looks straight out of a 50s b-movie. and so much of the model work is like that. it's shocking on a revisit. and it's not an age thing, it's bad for its time and its budget
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Postby Locke » Sat May 14, 2022 1:36 pm

i caught the end of this the other day and yes it's really awful.
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 1:37 pm

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Postby No Good Advice » Sat May 14, 2022 1:38 pm

big disc ship breaking through is all-time formative cinema going experience. can't remember the bad effects you're talking about, guess I have to watch it again
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Postby No Good Advice » Sat May 14, 2022 1:39 pm

endoskeleton wrote:


looks fine
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 1:40 pm

and i guess this thread is a weird way of saying that so much of this movie's appeal isn't the spectacle, at all. and while that appeal is limited it's interesting to think about how this movie made 800 million with a spectacle that shitty
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Postby shark week » Sat May 14, 2022 1:46 pm

idk, i have 0 issues with those special effects and i'd say i explicitly prefer them to current action films
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 1:48 pm

No Good Advice wrote:
endoskeleton wrote:


looks fine

no way. especially the way it's cut together? i mean bad filmmaking and editing plays a big part here but i guess if this doesn't convince, watch any of the big ship to ship battles and then watch something like return of the jedi as a direct comparison - it's rough
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Postby shark week » Sat May 14, 2022 1:49 pm

this is not the thread for me but i can't watch the dc/marvel special effects

they feel lifeless and way more difficult to suspend disbelief vs the special effects in this movie
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 1:49 pm

shark week wrote:idk, i have 0 issues with those special effects and i'd say i explicitly prefer them to current action films

i think a lot of us prefer models but there was a point in the mid 90s during the transition to CG where model work fell off, hard. at least for a handful of a big films
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Postby No Good Advice » Sat May 14, 2022 1:51 pm

endoskeleton wrote:
no way. especially the way it's cut together? i mean bad filmmaking and editing plays a big part here but i guess if this doesn't convince, watch any of the big ship to ship battles and then watch something like return of the jedi as a direct comparison - it's rough


it looks like all the 90s james bond movies
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 1:53 pm

No Good Advice wrote:
endoskeleton wrote:
no way. especially the way it's cut together? i mean bad filmmaking and editing plays a big part here but i guess if this doesn't convince, watch any of the big ship to ship battles and then watch something like return of the jedi as a direct comparison - it's rough


it looks like all the 90s james bond movies

which suffered exactly the same fate, sadly. as much as i love goldeneye there's some rough model work in there. though at least it's better directed than it is here, usually
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 2:00 pm

for as good as the practical alien puppet looks when will KOs the thing and then especially later during the autopsy, you've got basically the same puppet after a rough recovery day somewhere as the pilot of whatever of the mothership during the climax
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Postby Sweet Gregory Pectin » Sat May 14, 2022 2:16 pm

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Postby laserblast » Sat May 14, 2022 2:24 pm

is it bad. yes

but while i'm not saying it was on purpose I absolutely think it's one of the reasons this film succeeds wildly tbh. like the whole charm of this film is that it's a goofy ass b movie with enough budget for will smith
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Postby DasLofGang » Sat May 14, 2022 2:26 pm

somebody post the dog and explosion in the tunnel
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 2:29 pm

no, i agree, it's a very charming b-movie at the end of the day. and a lot of that rests with the ensemble. but god some of these effects

secretly the best effect of this movie is that cable tv office set, though, because i want to live there and always have
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Postby FourLegsGood » Sat May 14, 2022 2:29 pm

It's just an updated 50's B-Movie with 50x the budget. I think the effects are charming.
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Postby laserblast » Sat May 14, 2022 2:35 pm

there's a part of me that's just like, okay you wanna make an updated earth vs the flying saucers, make the saucers look like that.

and they did

and it rules

even though objectively i agree it's really bad!
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 2:39 pm

the giant saucers look kinda nice, honestly, and again them breaking through atmosphere is really good work overall

but then it's like there are effects in escape from new york that look better than some of this stuff on a fraction of the budget and i wonder where some of that budget went. movie set some records for number of effects shots at the time, though, so maybe everyone was just stretched thin to hit a deadline
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Postby reversemigraine » Sat May 14, 2022 2:44 pm

DasLofGang wrote:somebody post the dog and explosion in the tunnel


Image
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Postby FourLegsGood » Sat May 14, 2022 2:45 pm

Image

The ID4 Monument is a time capsule placed in Rachel, Nevada by the producers of Independence Day, which filmed some scenes in Rachel, in 1996.[1] The time capsule is installed in front of the Little A’Le’Inn and is intended to be open in 2050.
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Postby Monkey Trouble » Sat May 14, 2022 4:38 pm

Looks like standard 90s bruckheimer level effects
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Postby howdy » Sat May 14, 2022 4:40 pm

yea they're pretty good actually
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 5:20 pm

i like this movie. i find it charming for reasons much of the board probably does, even legitimately good in a few moments. but i don't think it's hard to see how rough some of the work is, even if you find it charming

i don't think this becomes a discussion of practical effects versus cgi because even in its time it wasn't a high water mark for special effects. it was just hyped through the roof, put together rapidly and you can see all the corners cut. i doubt emmerich had much input on many of the effects shots and it really shows, i think.
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 5:25 pm

whereas you put it next to something like ROTJ's space battle climax and you can see the collaboration and care onscreen. this desire to get a sense of movement, composition and three dimensionality from these 2d layers of composited model shots. all the tricks that movie borrowed from traditional 2d animation to create depth and presence. so that even when it's rough, it works cinematically

you get so little of that in independence day beyond the first 30 minutes or so
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Postby mcwop23 » Sat May 14, 2022 6:10 pm

i’m kind of happy i am 100% ignorant of moviemaking magic

just like to zone out and watch some dumb shit
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Postby Swelling Itching Brain » Sat May 14, 2022 6:13 pm

Yeah I"m just a true believer for any sfx, no suspension required, it's a dang movie
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Postby endoskeleton » Sat May 14, 2022 6:16 pm

i don't think you have to know anything about this stuff to see when it works and when it doesn't, at least in terms of filmmaking. i think anyone with eyes could see what a mess of space and movement some of the big battles are, whether you enjoy the movie despite this or not
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Postby Shotfrog » Sat May 14, 2022 6:17 pm

Maybe the best teaser trailer ever made though.
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