Official Marvel SNAP Thread - Days of Future Past

[Ron]

I’m at 29.

[This Guy]

I’m at 106 but am continuing to get destroyed now. I think I may snap while playing no cards to lower my MMR for a while. There is no reason to win after rank 100 right?

[Ron]

Getting real tired of not getting new cards.

[tgk2]

I just played someone who got their apocalypse up to 24 power but then played America Chavez on turn 6 just to stick it to me. Love this game.

[can]

i've spent way too much time on this game and have recently had some good luck with a hela deck but it's too inconsistent. been waiting ages to get sera in the token shop to play a good surfer or control deck. the game is great but the fucking glacial pace of obtaining cards is probably going to get me to quit way sooner than i otherwise would

[whatabout tim]

I’ve been playing zabucula lately and it has given the grind renewed life. It seems pretty popular amongst tryhards like myself.

[s/ns]

I’ve been playing similar. Fun counter against these Dracula decks is Morph.

[bluemovers]

made my way to vibranium for the first time despite having to endure top-tier decks/players every round

[tgk2]

Wow 500 credits lol why even bother

[This Guy]

CL 600 seems like where the MMR just has you play anyone. Finally seeing these group 5 decks.

[bluemovers]

i am approaching CL3000. is it correct that once i reach that i should have all pool 3 cards?

[rap and country]

should be somewhere in that neighbourhood from what i've read, yeah

[rap and country]

i screenshotted what I thought was going to be a rare instance of my negative deck winning without mister negative

but then i got aero kingpin'd (which i did not see coming at all)

[rap and country]

i snapped after (surprisingly) locking down the left but i think i got away only losing 4

[bluemovers]

this is a good summary i found on the Snap subreddit of why the matchmaking is broken, making it so fucking difficult for players (like myself and the person who posted this) to climb to Infinite.

TL;DR: Snap's Matchmaking ONLY cares about MMR in pool 3, screwing over non-infinite players



The Background

Yesterday while trying to complete a few quests, I (ingame name of AlpHaas) queued into KMBest and EducatedCollins, arguably 2 of the best players in the game, in back to back games, both playing variations of the best deck in the game (Zabu Darkhawk).
However, I'm just rank 87 (the highest rank I've ever reached), at CL ~2200 (Proof), and I'm entirely free to play. KMBest is rank 200+, and EducatedCollins is rank 400+.

Playing against opponents with ranks more than double and quadruple mine, while just trying to hit rank 90 for the first time, doesn't seem like a functional system.



Second Dinner's Algorithm

Second Dinner has, on multiple occasions, claimed that their Matchmaking algorithm takes into account 3 factors: Collection Level, Rank, and Internal MMR (determined by cubes per game). However, Collection Level and Rank seem to have essentially ZERO influence after entering pool 3.
Most people note playing against full meta Pool 3+ decks after crossing CL 600, and playing against infinite opponents at Rank 50. Rank clearly cannot have any noticeable impact if players in Rank 80-90 are playing against players at rank 200+ and 400+. Ultimately, it seems that matchmaking is almost entirely determined by MMR.



Why this is a Problem

While matchmaking is entirely determined by MMR, the rewards structure of Marvel Snap is not. Rewards are granted based on rank, rather than MMR. In order to hit infinite, I have to be able to consistently beat players like KMBest and EducatedCollins, who not only play the best decks in the game, but play them exceptionally well. The ONLY way I can climb is by becoming, literally, one of the top .01% players in all of Marvel Snap.



Lower MMR players also suffer from this system. The best way to game the system right now is to intentially tank your MMR once you hit infinite, where you can't lose any progress and already have the full season rewards, by throwing away 8 cube games. Many players have done this since the game's inception. As a result, when a new season starts, they get matched with much lower rank players. This results in rank 50 players going up against former-infinite players who use top tier decks to climb before they intentionally tank their MMR. New players don't enjoy getting repeatedly curbstomped by decks like Zabu Darkhawk when they start a new season. While I have to literally become a gaming god just to hit rank 90, people who tank their MMR at infinite can climb each season by continually beating up on new players who just want to hit rank 50.



The Solution

The obvious solution is to much more heavily prioritize rank as a matchmaking metric for people who are not yet in infinite. This will result in people going up against players who are at their own level in the climb. Climbing will not require high MMR individuals to continuously beat the top 10 players in the game, intentionally throwing games at infinite will be disincentivized, and less new players will get continuously matched against infinite players using full-meta decks.



Once in infinite, the MMR system can be reprioritized. People who want to meme in infinite can play against each other, while those more interested in competitive environments can continue to play against others with the same goals. Making this change to the system will make the season rewards equally achievable by all players, while still allowing for skill based matchmaking to result in good, fair games for all players.



TL;DR: The current MMR system is easily abusable by infinite-level players and punishes new and non-infinite players trying to climb. This can be fixed by using rank as a matchmaking metric for non-infinite players, rather than just MMR.

[s/ns]

i am approaching CL3000. is it correct that once i reach that i should have all pool 3 cards?

Should be closer to ~3500-3800 if you're FTP, I *think*

[s/ns]

Also, I started matching with Infinite (past and present) players somewhere in the 60s. It's really stupid.

The card collecting thing is getting tedious at this point: I am missing 3 Series 4 cards at the moment which cycle continuously in my Token Shop. I don't want these cards, and the two Series 5 cards I'd consider scooping (Darkhawk or Galactus) haven't cycled through in weeks if not months. I'm pushing 10k tokens at this point, have stagnated in the high 80s because when you're playing the same ~5 decks over and over, it's mostly a zero sum "what cards do I draw and when" exercise.

[broodstar]

I'm in Elo hell irl.

[whatabout tim]

Yea the matchmaking is broken. I was seeing people with the infinite title when I was in the 70s. I’m still only at 89 now so I’m kinda resigned to not hit infinite.

[Viz]

How can you tell what rank your opponents are?

[whatabout tim]

The title/avatar unlocks are the only way to tell. This season's is "really really dirty." I think the avatar was level 80? Really sick of matching up against the $75+ variant whales at this point.

I wish matchmaking was more closely tied to clvl. That's the only way it would actually feel fair. I also have a feeling retreating doesn't actually count as a loss or anything all that negative for mmr, they definitely need to weigh those more heavily. It sucks to have 4-5 games in a row where I effectively have to retreat only to keep matching up against stronger and stronger decks. It feels like I get penalized for making good decisions.

Edit: I had a rough losing streak this morning, so this is probably just my usual sour grapes.

[dr. badvibes]

this is a good summary i found on the Snap subreddit of why the matchmaking is broken, making it so fucking difficult for players (like myself and the person who posted this) to climb to Infinite.
<reddit post>

the system sucks but uhhhh i'm not sure you're exactly the demographic that post is arguing needs help:

i am approaching CL3000. is it correct that once i reach that i should have all pool 3 cards?

Toggle Spoiler

if you're having trouble imagine how bad it is for F2P players and/or late adopters with vast gaps in series 3!

[tgk2]

maybe im missing something but whats the point of grinding your level up? i get grinding for new cards, but doesnt moving up levels just make you play tougher opponents? there don't seem to be much else advantage wise aside from some piddly rewards each 10 levels

[s/ns]

No I think you have it about right. It's just cosmetics and bragging rights. Maybe that'll change with Battle Mode or future seasons - Brode or one of the devs did say that they want more people hitting Infinite.

[bluemovers]

tomorrow!!!

[tgk2]

cool. wonder how you identify your friends

[bluemovers]

once i know, i'll be maintaining a user list in the first thread here

[s/ns]

I'm really curious what card rebalances come down the pipe tomorrow. Hard to think they'd rework Zabu or Surfer but sheesh it's sort of necessary.

[whatabout tim]

maybe im missing something but whats the point of grinding your level up? i get grinding for new cards, but doesnt moving up levels just make you play tougher opponents? there don't seem to be much else advantage wise aside from some piddly rewards each 10 levels

It’s honestly just the grind for new cards. The rewards continue to get more puddly as you go too, hahaha

[whatabout tim]

Wait are card balances coming tomorrow too?

Edit: Looks like they are, I'm getting kinda sick of zabu/silver surfer, but I wonder if they're really gonna nerf battle pass cards.