RIP Norm MacDonald

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Postby can » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:05 pm

if you're talking about the louis ck and roseanne comments in isolation, then sure it definitely seems like that. but i think he was also grappling with how to reconcile that some of his closest friends did terrible things (maybe reflecting on his own past?) and i think he did a pretty shitty job of conveying that sentiment publicly and that misstep essentially marked the end of his public and late night appearance for some years. if you listen to interviews where he can't hide behind jokes as much he definitely expresses regrets and is more reflective of his own and our collective mortality. but regarding "lamenting the old days" he was definitely always in favor of old comics, late night, and tv and would constantly reference old celebrities i'd never heard of. i don't think his politics changed drastically over his lifetime, if that's what you're referencing - i think he's always been center right to outright conservative.

his more traditional and maybe outdated view of show business and keeping the facade of celebrity away from personal life is probably at least one small reason not even his closest friends knew he had cancer before he died.
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Postby davideotape » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:23 pm

its not in isolation, it was pathologic. louis ck, roseanne, shane gillis (?), knocking women on Last Comic Standing, any time anyone said something sortve liberal on twitter when he was in a bad mood… yes he valued his friends and didn’t understand he wasnt helping anyone when he went on twitter aggressively harassing some guy who wrote an article about how shane gillis would not be a good move for snl. but he didnt “mellow with age”!
oh, word?
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Postby can » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:32 pm

agree to disagree :ugeek:
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Postby davideotape » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:34 pm

i mean… theres lots of evidence he didnt “mellow with age” but sure.

he was also insanely funny and clever and maybe the closest a human can get to bugs bunny. but lets maybe stick to only romanticizing that aspect of him.
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Postby can » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:42 pm

okay
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Postby palmer eldritch » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:47 pm

bugs bunny fought a martian guy repeatedly, is that what you're getting at?
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Postby Skerple » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:01 pm

can wrote:agree to disagree :ugeek:


you can't do that??
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Postby can » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:05 pm

Skerple wrote:
can wrote:agree to disagree :ugeek:


you can't do that??

i'm about to do it again 8-)
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Postby mego » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:46 pm

Ghost of Spartacus wrote:
can wrote:the sexual assault stories are new to me as well, sad to hear about them. as far as he jokes and politics, i'm pretty sure it's been discussed at length elsewhere on the board, but he's got a long line of shitty beliefs and bad jokes. his stand up set has always unfortunately had misogynist, homophobic, transphobic, and less frequently racist bits and i agree with everyone else that it's especially unfortunate because he clearly didn't need these to succeed.

i do think he mellowed out significantly with age, and i mostly respected him a lot for an outlook and philosophy about life that resonated a lot with me, even if he struggled to live by it himself. i'm way too much of a norm fan, have easily watched and rewatched 95% of the available videos online over the years, seen him multiple times, and his death is probably the only celebrity death i'll ever truly care about. but yeah, he expressed some harmful views, some well beyond when it was even socially acceptable (not that it ever should have been), and it seems there was more awful shit he was responsible for that many weren't aware of. i still haven't figured out the best way to reconcile all of that in how i reflect on and grieve someone that meant something to me.


Thanks for posting this.


Yeah this reflects my thoughts too thanks can
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Postby mybeardhurts » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:55 pm

antoine wrote:
mybeardhurts wrote:just curious. the time the comedian made fun of the bible, was norm actually upset by that? it felt genuinely not a joke

I think he proclaimed to be a Christian and was averse to Bill Maher atheist types

ok. thanks for affirming he wasnt kidding as I was never sure if that was him making fun of being such a traditionalist and salt-of-the-earth type of thing. maybe that was a real security blanket topic he didn’t like being taken away as I did know he seemed to fear death quite a lot.
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Postby jubjub » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:06 pm

Which is also another contradiction about him bc he says sincerely he likes bill maher on his wtf episode, who is one of the worst bill maher-types
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Postby down with homework » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:18 pm

fine then
Last edited by down with homework on Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby deadbass » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:23 pm

probably just needs to not be posted?
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Postby can » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:23 pm

i love this appearance


also bob saget posted a pretty sweet youtube commemorating norm and their friendship
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Postby can » Thu Sep 16, 2021 11:25 pm

yeah that video above sucks as do any of the dudes on twitter harassing the women speaking out about him
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Postby came to wreck » Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:52 am

what page did the funny YouTube’s stop getting posted
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Postby RealKenny3 » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:38 am

page 69
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Postby uncleoswald » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:47 am

inmate wrote:i’ve seen many interviews later in his life where he expresses regret for the fact that he used to tell jokes that would hurt people and he came to learn that there was in fact a line, so i don’t really hold that against him. but if you were hurt by those jokes, then yeah it’s totally fair to call him out. the sexual harassment stuff and his general shittiness towards women is pretty inexcusable, and even before his death and before i knew all these specifics i thought it was fine that he was de facto cancelled because he clearly wasn’t a good dude and hurting his career is really the only way to make someone like that face consequences. but now he’s dead and idk how you hold a dead dude accountable so i’m probably just gonna continue being sad he’s gone and laughing at his stuff. everyone should absolutely continue to discuss his fucked up behavior and listen to the people he hurt, however. ridiculous to suggest otherwise


yep, pretty much agree with this. it seems like maybe discussing a person's death - allowing fans to grieve - should be separated from discussing a person's legacy. the issue seems to be coming from the confrontation aspect of it, like when you're telling already-hurt people that the guy they support told bad jokes 25 years ago and then those people get insulted for any number of things.
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Postby uncleoswald » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:49 am

i've never sought out statements from celebrities the way i am now - howard and robin, artie, sandler and spade, saget, letterman. i'd love to hear from jay and jerry seinfeld. all of these people just feel like family right now, in a way. like, i hurt for adam eget. which is weird.
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Postby Althea » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:54 am

I think that's a false binary, a lot of the people posting in here who feel hurt by his death also feel hurt by his harmful behaviour. (Keeping "hurt" in perspective of course - it's real on both sides but afaik he didn't know any of us personally, and he didn't sexually assault any of us or tell any of us we should die to our faces.) Even if you could separate the two I don't think it's fair to prioritize a fan's sadness over the harm he caused.
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Postby Althea » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:56 am

Also I think only one person here has advanced the position that people shouldn't grieve this guy at all, and that person was pretty roundly shut down.
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Postby Actor Jason P » Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:58 am

Althea wrote:I don't think it's fair to prioritize a fan's sadness over the harm he caused.


yeah. i honestly keep going back to the whole how well shit gets swept under the rug when people like this are alive. nobody wants to hear it, nobody feels safe sharing it
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Postby uncleoswald » Fri Sep 17, 2021 9:46 am

Althea wrote:I think that's a false binary, a lot of the people posting in here who feel hurt by his death also feel hurt by his harmful behaviour. (Keeping "hurt" in perspective of course - it's real on both sides but afaik he didn't know any of us personally, and he didn't sexually assault any of us or tell any of us we should die to our faces.) Even if you could separate the two I don't think it's fair to prioritize a fan's sadness over the harm he caused.


sorry, i should have clarified, i wasn't talking specifically about hipinion, although some of what has happened here is also reflective of what i've seen more broadly shared on twitter, reddit, elsewhere.

but no, i don't think it's fair to prioritize one over another either, and i think fans who are getting upset talking about this stuff are acting inappropriately as well. i don't think i'm advocating for one over another, though - just separating the two discussions.
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Postby Milquetoaster Strudels » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:00 am

I'm genuinely bummed out by Norm's death, but I was also really saddened by how regressive he was and the way in which he leaned into conservatism later in life. He was like a TV uncle that I grew more and more distant from, yet still recalled with fondness for the times when he was truly a joy, even if he was a disappointment to me in the present
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Postby deadbass » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:23 am

came to wreck wrote:what page did the funny YouTube’s stop getting posted


what a dumb fucking post
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Postby winjer » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:25 am

yeah ew, this thread is exactly what it should be
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Postby xxx-xxx-xxxx » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:29 am

Milquetoaster Strudels wrote:I'm genuinely bummed out by Norm's death, but I was also really saddened by how regressive he was and the way in which he leaned into conservatism later in life. He was like a TV uncle that I grew more and more distant from, yet still recalled with fondness for the times when he was truly a joy, even if he was a disappointment to me in the present


yeah his podcast thread you could see that a lot of people (myself included) were basically done with him, and this was way before he died.

If anything a lot of us that hated how he was regressing have used this opportunity to look back at him more fondly than we have in a long time.
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Postby Brouhaha » Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:36 am

doesn't look like any big media outlets picked up the recent allegations aspect, most the norm news in my feed is about how bill maher said it's correct to not reveal your illness like norm did
make it mild
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Postby brittle » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:03 am

yeah

i was so turned off by norm macdonald as a person, that i literally haven't revisited any of his jokes until this week.

even when dirty work came out, i was like, "yeah, nope!"

so it was nice to be able to just laugh at some really flawlessly executed comedy for a few hours, but its also nice to not have to tiptoe around the truth about who he was :)
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Postby brittle » Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:04 am

like, TWICE during my lunch ride yesterday, "ladies and gentlemen, he's for the birds!" popped in my head and i laughed out loud.
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