The 2020 Primary

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
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Cloning while they're multiplying
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Postby bruceagain » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:35 pm

nationalising banking, telecommunications and utilities among other things would be pretty sick tbh
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Postby shirts optional » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:36 pm

Who's gonna last longer: Gillibrand or Hickenlooper?
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:36 pm

Polygraph Shakira wrote:
palmer eldritch wrote:
Polygraph Shakira wrote:
palmer eldritch wrote:if elected, he will do the same thing with the green deal anyone else in the field will, which is nothing because it will never pass congress

Yeah. I'm pretty much out on Bernie 2020, and find much of the effusive rhetoric around him and how singular of a candidate he is to be pretty unearned given how tepid his campaign has been so far. Warren is the only candidate I'm excited about and have hope for.


I don't really follow, because in many ways he -has- been a singular force in mainstreaming ideas that were considered kooky left stuff before.

Yeah, exactly, he mainstreamed the ideas last election. That's the work he has done. What has he been doing now, and what will he do moving forward, to distinguish himself?


idk man its been like 2 weeks lol
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:39 pm

everyone copied my ideas. my work here is done. time to bonk the shower door
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Postby thrasher » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:40 pm

Polygraph Shakira wrote:
thrasher wrote:
Polygraph Shakira wrote:
palmer eldritch wrote:if elected, he will do the same thing with the green deal anyone else in the field will, which is nothing because it will never pass congress

Yeah. I'm pretty much out on Bernie 2020, and find much of the effusive rhetoric around him and how singular of a candidate he is to be pretty unearned given how tepid his campaign has been so far. Warren is the only candidate I'm excited about and have hope for.


can you elaborate on this? I'll admit I haven't really followed the horserace at all so far so I don't have my own impressions of this. but it seems so early to judge, especially someone with an enthusiastic base of support like sanders.

and idk to me bernie is clearly the only candidate who is going to place class conflict as a central part of his messaging, and tbh that's the only reason i'm supporting him (I'll ultimately vote for whoever the dem is but I don't think I'd ever donate or volunteer or even try to convince anyone to vote for anyone else). i can't imagine anyone else including warren ever broaching that territory. I could elaborate on why I think his campaign is very much singular but I don't actually have anything interesting to say so I will refrain


As (our) Bernie said, I feel like he and his supporters have been coasting off of the 2016 campaign and he hasn't really brought out any novel policy or structural change ideas since his last campaign. Even the whole "look at how much better he is on race!" thing seems like a calculation based on political strategy instead of a natural growth of the candidate. And I'm not even dinging him for that because I never felt like that was a major issue with him, I'm just not really seeing anything new or radical from him in a time where newness and radicalness are needed. The Democratic Party has more or less come in line with his ideas rhetorically, so what's the main benefit he's bringing when everyone is aping his language? Authenticity, sure, but he's not giving me any reason to believe he'd be an effective President at all. I'm mainly reacting to his filibuster comments btw. I'd just like to see more detail and vision from him, and I'm getting tired of the line "Well, he's a Democratic Socialist you know!"...ok, what does that mean for the Presidency in 2020? I feel like Liz is bringing more concrete plans and has a bigger vision, while the message I'm still getting from Bernie is about a vague revolution. Starting to feel kinda Obama '08-esque in the way people are filling in their hopes and dreams into this vessel.

Sorry, this was prompted by a very annoying argument I just had with a few people saying he's going to nationalize industries.

I mean... he has been the leading voice on a bunch of relatively radical (and much needed) reforms, which as you indicated have basically become a litmus test for any prospective Dem nom. But none of those reforms are anywhere near being realized... Donald Trump is the president.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by newness... is Bernie supposed to be stumping for full socialized medicine now that Medicare for All is passe? Also I don't have a strong read on what other people think but I do not take any of the other candidates except Warren, or the Democratic party as an institution, even remotely seriously when they say they support those socdem reforms, which I think a lot of people (rightly) still associate mostly with the sanders campaign and a handful of other progressive congresspeople
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Postby Bernie » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:45 pm

I’m enjoying the conversation around this, honestly.
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Postby pzadvance » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:47 pm

very puzzled by the argument that bernie should be ignored because he's consistently and authentically continued to support ideas that other noms are only just coming around to paying (possibly insincere) lip service to, ideas which are still miles away from being implemented...? shouldn't he continue to fight for this stuff until it is, you know, a reality? and doesn't he deserve more than a little respect for sticking to his guns on this?
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Postby Bernie » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:50 pm

I don’t think warren is new to championing most of these things or that she had to be pushed to adopt any of these ideals. She just decided not to run for President in 2016 and therefore wasn’t front and center in the conversation.
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Postby Bernie » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:52 pm

I also agree with Polygraph that a lot of Bernie’s schtick seems like rhetoric while warren has seemingly put forth well thought out policy that could possibly be achievable
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Postby Bernie » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:53 pm

I don’t think Medicare for all is rhetoric but Bernie isn’t the first politician to talk about universal healthcare so giving him credit for that seems a bit odd idk
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Postby thrasher » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:55 pm

i'm enjoying the conversation as well and I apologize if I've sort of koolaidman'd myself into this thread in any sense. slow work day :) I do appreciate hearing what other people's sense on these things is and it probably prevents me from getting drawn into a facebook argument or something
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Postby pzadvance » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:55 pm

yeah, i was referring more to the kamalas/corys/betos of the race

i think warren and sanders are the two best candidates out there but feel bernie has the most built-in support and as a result is more likely to be a formidable contender but id be happy to be proven wrong on that.

either way seems weird to write him off at this point imho
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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:57 pm

I don't know if a wealth tax and breaking up Silicon valley are that much more pragmatic than Bernie's ideas. They're rad as hell, but they're just as much of a long shot.
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Postby Big Oil » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:58 pm

lolol

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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:58 pm

although the Republicans are kind of into fucking with Silicon Valley so maybe that is pretty pragmatic
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Postby alaska » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:59 pm

Big Oil wrote:lolol

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oh my god
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Postby Polygraph Shakira » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:59 pm

pzadvance wrote:very puzzled by the argument that bernie should be ignored because he's consistently and authentically continued to support ideas that other noms are only just coming around to paying (possibly insincere) lip service to, ideas which are still miles away from being implemented...? shouldn't he continue to fight for this stuff until it is, you know, a reality? and doesn't he deserve more than a little respect for sticking to his guns on this?

I don't think he should be ignored by any means, and I think he deserves immense respect, and I'm super glad he's been able to push the party left and mainstream these ideas.

I'm wondering if he's the best candidate to implement them, or if he's even capable of implementing them, given his hitherto unwillingness to acknowledge the gravity of the structural obstacles or rolling out ways to counter them. Ways to handle the immediate political crisis we're in don't seem to be in his political toolkit.
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Postby trouble » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:00 pm

palmer eldritch wrote:everyone copied my ideas. my work here is done. time to bonk the shower door


name one person who bonked a shower door and went on to be the leader of the united states
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Postby alaska » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:00 pm

reagan mustve bonked at least once
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Postby Bernie » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:04 pm

thrasher wrote:i'm enjoying the conversation as well and I apologize if I've sort of koolaidman'd myself into this thread in any sense. slow work day :) I do appreciate hearing what other people's sense on these things is and it probably prevents me from getting drawn into a facebook argument or something


Even though I don't get involved too often, this place is really a great outlet for reading or discussing politics for me. I gave up on social media political discourse a long time ago but godspeed to those fighting the good fight.
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Postby trouble » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:04 pm

feel like reagan was a bath man
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Postby Celiac » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:07 pm

Taft once got stuck in the bonk
You are canceled for me. Buh bye.
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:08 pm

alaska wrote:
Big Oil wrote:lolol

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oh my god


y'all didn't spend enough time in the midterms thread
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Postby virile » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:08 pm

alaska wrote:reagan mustve bonked at least once


Children: Maureen Christine Michael Patti Ron

this man bonked
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:10 pm

Bernie wrote:I don’t think Medicare for all is rhetoric but Bernie isn’t the first politician to talk about universal healthcare so giving him credit for that seems a bit odd idk


as of 2016 wasn't he the only senate sponsor of a medicare for all bill? now it has 16. he deserves some credit for where its gone imo.
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Postby def from above » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:13 pm

Am I the only person on this board seriously intrigued by Andrew Yang?

Honestly asking. I don’t read the US politics threads much
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Postby virile » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:17 pm

def from above wrote:Am I the only person on this board seriously intrigued by Andrew Yang?

Honestly asking. I don’t read the US politics threads much


his book is great and he is the most exciting candidate and i hope he wins #yanggang
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Postby def from above » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:20 pm

Shit I can’t read the tone of that post with any level of confidence

Lol
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Postby palmer eldritch » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:20 pm

I could make a similar case with the $15 minimum wage. sure it has grassroots support but he has mainstreamed it as a policy of the democratic party to the point his bill has replaced Patty Murray's $12 minimum wage bill (which was the 2015 party proposal) as the House/Senate policy platform
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Postby axelrod gunnarson » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:20 pm

def from above wrote:Am I the only person on this board seriously intrigued by Andrew Yang?

Honestly asking. I don’t read the US politics threads much


I guess its interesting that Pepe-loving NEETs might get him on the debate stage but the libertarian vision for UBI is not something I agree with. Aside from that, he seems to be a bog-standard technocratic Democrat.
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