Tarantino IX: Once Upon A Time In Hollywood

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Postby archaic » Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:58 pm

Eyeball Kid wrote:And archaic, the movie plays with fantasy and reality throughout its running time, but knowing about the reality of the Manson family is important to it and plays a huge part in why the final scene is so affecting.


No doubt. But this doesn't explain the obsessive doubling in the movie, which is just... there. Like, Smerdyakov is supposed to double Ivan in the Brothers K but the point isn't that Smerd is good, but rather that Ivan is bad. That we hate Smerd and kinda like Ivan reminds us that our hate comes more from the fact that he stinks and plays bad music and is dumb.
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Postby Eyeball Kid » Mon Aug 19, 2019 8:47 pm

I hope the Blu-ray release includes as an extra a complete scene of Rick and Cliff watching and commenting on the full episode of FBI.
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Postby shacky » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:00 am

haven't seen this yet but a big group of my housemate's friends were just here critiquing it:

- nothing happens and boring for two and half hours
- too much violence in last half hour
- too many cigarettes (proposed counter-argument: potentially realistic portrayal of cigarettes given time period???)
- extended sidebar surmising anguish felt by noted environmentalist leonardo dicaprio for having smoked so many ozone-destroying cigarettes

unanimous conclusion: zero stars
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Postby shacky » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:04 am

i asked what they thought of the twist but they didn't know what the manson family was or that sharon tate was a real person
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Postby it's the suspense that gets me » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:34 am

archaic wrote:
Eyeball Kid wrote:
archaic wrote:If I didn't know anything about Tarantino as a person, I'd assume this movie was meant to show that your preference for Rick and Cliff over the hippies is a purely aesthetic preference. Like, you could take the script of this movie and make a pro-hippie/anti-cowboy movie out of it with very few structural changes.

The hippies were the Manson family, who were murderous racists who wanted to start a race war.

But not in the movie. In the movie they were misguided burnouts living off of a has-been who made his fortune a decade earlier on Bounty Law. And the movie is at pains to point out that Cliff is a direct parallel here---living in squalor off of the has-been Rick, watching his shows with him that very evening, etc.

And instead of the insane irl motivation of Helter Skelter, the hippies in this movie are given this motive of taking revenge against a violent culture. This is actually coherent in the context of the film. It's not some great idea, but it's probably a more defensible moral premise than "kill your wife because she's annoying".

Just to be clear, I don't think anyone is going to watch the movie and not be pulling for Cliff or Rick. I watched the movie, and I had a great time rooting for them. It's just that on reflection I can't help but get a sense that the movie was really trying to make that rooting as arbitrary as possible, tied up in the tonal/aesthetic decisions that anyone with sufficient skill could use to tell a story. I think this is actually pretty interesting, especially in the context of a film that no sane person is going to see as a serious attempt at revisionist history. That said, I have too strong of a notion of who Tarantino is as a person to think this was actually intended.


yeah, thanks for this post. both my partner and i read this film pretty similarly (and both felt like it was his strongest film since jackie brown, in no small part because it seemed less hung up on ideas of binary good and evil/revenge fantasy shit since anything since then) but i didn't really think of some of the parallels here.

i have no idea how to read anything tarantino says in interviews and that's probably for the best. he seems like an idiot savant who lucks into creating an entertaining film that may or may not have something to say every once in awhile. i guess i'm ok with that.
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Postby came to wreck » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:10 pm

will he get the oscar tho?
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Postby easy » Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:13 pm

yes

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Postby carlagain » Wed Aug 21, 2019 2:20 pm

should i see this
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Postby NegativeCapability » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:05 pm

Will watch it this weekend. Only seen the trailer a while back. Excitement right now is at about 6.5/10.
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Postby galactagogue » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:38 pm

Sweet Gregory Pectin wrote:
spix et chicho wrote:I was not totally convinced by this movie until the exact moment when the gates to the Polanski/Tate house swing open for Rick. something about that moment clinched it and tied the film's goals together in my mind in one instant, in a kind of last-minute Bressonian way


same


yeah this was genuinely unexpected even though it seemed really obvious once it happened. it fit real nice-like imo.
Bob511 wrote:It's important to remember, though, that California has more psychologists than any other state.
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Postby galactagogue » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:39 pm

Viola Swamp wrote:my signif was so pissed at the johnny guitar ripoff shot



...why? that kind of cribbing is literally built into the narrative of the movie lol
Bob511 wrote:It's important to remember, though, that California has more psychologists than any other state.
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Postby galactagogue » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:50 pm

The Producer wrote:
Bananafish wrote:I just thought that by including that cliff backstory scene it created this weird dynamic that seems thematically at odds with the rest of the movie where one woman is allowed to live while the other has to die


no it didnt, the movie wasnt about her in the way it was abt Tate (it's more about the Manson murderer women than his wife even)


see i feel like taking that a step even more removed and say it's not about Tate or the Manson murder but the Story of the Murder or the way the event became a fiction that people re-told. And honestly, I couldn't help but think about a Joan Didion essay from the White Album that cites this murder as an event that seriously shook Hollywood/LA. I can't help be read that into the overall film. Why else focus on this event and re-write it in such a way that totally disregards reality? It's not like he's trying to get to a truth about the real event or anything like that.
Last edited by galactagogue on Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bob511 wrote:It's important to remember, though, that California has more psychologists than any other state.
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Postby galactagogue » Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:51 pm

Sorry really wanted to catch up with this thread. Saw the movie like a week ago but i've been itching to rewatch it ever since. I was pretty satisfied as spectator looking for an entertaining film on a slow sunday night and as someone who sorta annoyingly tries to digest the choices directors make.
Bob511 wrote:It's important to remember, though, that California has more psychologists than any other state.
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Postby galactagogue » Wed Aug 21, 2019 4:39 pm

truncated wrote:
brian dennehy fan wrote:guy behind me laughed waaaaaaay too hard at pitt's mexican line and only good indian is a dead one movie title read


Yeah my theater ate all the iffy race shit up. To a degree that seemed beyond the film's intentions, the type we had that correct thread premise that was stupidly shit all over about.

I want to go back for a 2nd viewing but likely won't just based on how edgelordy the audience felt the get to/need to(?) be for a ninth film by director Quentin Tarantino. It needs crushing beer and getting hazy on a stuffed couch to it, on one's lonesome.



I saw this with a mexican person and they laughed harder than anyone in the theatre at the 'don't cry in front of the mexicans' line. i'm not saying that renders all problematic interpretation moot. idk, i will really need to rewatch this but as a POC who watched with other POC the racial stuff didn't land with much vitriol or even problematic tropiness. I can see the anger about the depiction of Bruce Lee but it also feels weird to reduce the treatment to a conversation about race as if Bruce Lee wasn't an icon for EVERYONE. I'm sure the choice of mocking that status is super deliberate and I don't doubt the backlash was expected—and I can see a critique where making the this choice anyways can feel like trolling, but I just tend to read it more as an opener for dealing with the tropes as opposed to more of the same. Maybe I'm being too generous though !

:continues to comb thru thread to find more shit to react to days later...:
Bob511 wrote:It's important to remember, though, that California has more psychologists than any other state.
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Postby inkling » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:16 pm

do y’all ever wonder when you’re watching a movie by Quaton Taradino what it would be like if we gave other people money to make grownup movies, like if once a month we had an auteur movie in theaters instead of once a year

I bet it would be cool and we’d forget all about Quata Tabadabo
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Postby manvstrees » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:25 pm

Nah that's dum
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Postby inkling » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:27 pm

yeah i guess
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Postby came to wreck » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:28 pm

galactagogue wrote:
truncated wrote:
brian dennehy fan wrote:guy behind me laughed waaaaaaay too hard at pitt's mexican line and only good indian is a dead one movie title read


Yeah my theater ate all the iffy race shit up. To a degree that seemed beyond the film's intentions, the type we had that correct thread premise that was stupidly shit all over about.

I want to go back for a 2nd viewing but likely won't just based on how edgelordy the audience felt the get to/need to(?) be for a ninth film by director Quentin Tarantino. It needs crushing beer and getting hazy on a stuffed couch to it, on one's lonesome.



I saw this with a mexican person and they laughed harder than anyone in the theatre at the 'don't cry in front of the mexicans' line. i'm not saying that renders all problematic interpretation moot. idk, i will really need to rewatch this but as a POC who watched with other POC the racial stuff didn't land with much vitriol or even problematic tropiness. I can see the anger about the depiction of Bruce Lee but it also feels weird to reduce the treatment to a conversation about race as if Bruce Lee wasn't an icon for EVERYONE. I'm sure the choice of mocking that status is super deliberate and I don't doubt the backlash was expected—and I can see a critique where making the this choice anyways can feel like trolling, but I just tend to read it more as an opener for dealing with the tropes as opposed to more of the same. Maybe I'm being too generous though !

:continues to comb thru thread to find more shit to react to days later...:


i saw this with someone half native american and they didnt mind the dead indian line tbh
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Postby came to wreck » Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:49 pm

easy wrote:yes

for ad astra


you like to respond to my posts it seems
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Postby inkling » Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:50 pm

Marlon Rando wrote:do y’all ever wonder when you’re watching a movie by Quaton Taradino what it would be like if we gave other people money to make grownup movies, like if once a month we had an auteur movie in theaters instead of once a year

I bet it would be cool and we’d forget all about Quata Tabadabo


was just listening to street fight and the dude made the same point about QT movies seeming better because of our shit movie culture

we could have movies this interesting every week without the misogyny or the crap nostalgia, but no you people enjoy super heroes
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Postby lockheed » Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:28 pm

How dare you
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Postby manvstrees » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:08 pm

Marlon Rando wrote:
Marlon Rando wrote:do y’all ever wonder when you’re watching a movie by Quaton Taradino what it would be like if we gave other people money to make grownup movies, like if once a month we had an auteur movie in theaters instead of once a year

I bet it would be cool and we’d forget all about Quata Tabadabo


was just listening to street fight and the dude made the same point about QT movies seeming better because of our shit movie culture

we could have movies this interesting every week without the misogyny or the crap nostalgia, but no you people enjoy super heroes


Those aren't the problem
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Postby computer problems » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:33 pm

yea. i think the disney monopoly that incubates the superhero movies is the problem not the movies themselves. also i think a lot of interesting movies do come out still in spite of it
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Postby Reliable Tradesman » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:41 pm

I was so drunk during this that I don't even know if I saw it and maybe I just let someone tell me the entire story.
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Postby inkling » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:43 pm

manvstrees wrote:
Marlon Rando wrote:
Marlon Rando wrote:do y’all ever wonder when you’re watching a movie by Quaton Taradino what it would be like if we gave other people money to make grownup movies, like if once a month we had an auteur movie in theaters instead of once a year

I bet it would be cool and we’d forget all about Quata Tabadabo


was just listening to street fight and the dude made the same point about QT movies seeming better because of our shit movie culture

we could have movies this interesting every week without the misogyny or the crap nostalgia, but no you people enjoy super heroes


Those aren't the problem


oh but you think there’s a problem and I’m not just “dum” right

do tell
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Postby Hm I Dunno » Thu Aug 22, 2019 8:47 pm

some of my best friends are half indian
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Postby inkling » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:10 pm

computer problems wrote:yea. i think the disney monopoly that incubates the superhero movies is the problem not the movies themselves. also i think a lot of interesting movies do come out still in spite of it


these are all good points. I was just being lazy with the superhero gripe

I think the problem is that only a handful of people are allowed to make movies in the style QT makes them

so when people see a QT movie and the shots last longer than two seconds, or a scene lasts four minutes and doesn’t end with a bang, or there are some non-supernatural adults talking about their lives, then the moviegoer says hey I must be at one of those good movies, this must be a QUALITY MOVIE that I think is great

QT would be the dregs of a decent movie culture, a hack, but our world is such garbage he’s a genius
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Postby The Producer » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:00 pm

I think that's an interesting approach to hating on him that I felt 10 years ago, except that this one's great in ways his 90s work was too when there wasnt that same context and it stands out as such, whereas his biggest mainstream/boxoffice hits/oscar-winners have been during the superhero era and function similar to superhero movies with implausibility and good/evil stakes and are pastiches of proto-superhero genre-oversaturating westerns - the real outlier that points to artist vs hack is Death Proof coming after Spiderman starting the problem and before MCU solidified it and everyone shitting on it for most of the same things this one's lauded for - plus when the kinds of artistically progressive movies it seems like youre hoping for are accessible via the mainstream - the Suspiria remake, PTA, recent Malicks - theyre not recognized as such by mainstream or arthouse audiences
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Postby furrowed brow » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:09 am

Eh.
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Postby manvstrees » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:24 am

basically hot take friday
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