Jesus fucking Christ, Morrissey

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Postby badhat » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:16 pm

Ersaph wrote:Question for Smiths fan: What was the earliest incident of Morrissey expressing an explicitly racist viewpoint?


i used to think it was "bengali in platforms" but it turns out it goes back further than that

In 1984 Morrissey famously said "all reggae is vile" in what may seem an innocent comment in isolation, yet it takes a more sinister form when considered amongst his consistent diatribe of bigotry. For example, a biography of the early formation of The Nosebleeds points out that around the same time Morrissey declared, "I don't hate Pakistanis, but I dislike them immensely." There is no nuance to be examined there. Morrissey had a brief punk career before stepping out with The Smiths, which included a band called Slaughter and the Dogs, which gathered a number of skinhead and suedehead fans.
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Postby Riverchrist » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:19 pm

Also he danced his way out of the womb and promptly announced "rap is crap."
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Postby speakers » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:26 pm

badhat wrote:
Ersaph wrote:Question for Smiths fan: What was the earliest incident of Morrissey expressing an explicitly racist viewpoint?


i used to think it was "bengali in platforms" but it turns out it goes back further than that

In 1984 Morrissey famously said "all reggae is vile" in what may seem an innocent comment in isolation, yet it takes a more sinister form when considered amongst his consistent diatribe of bigotry. For example, a biography of the early formation of The Nosebleeds points out that around the same time Morrissey declared, "I don't hate Pakistanis, but I dislike them immensely." There is no nuance to be examined there. Morrissey had a brief punk career before stepping out with The Smiths, which included a band called Slaughter and the Dogs, which gathered a number of skinhead and suedehead fans.


so the board has venerated a complete piece of shit for years
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Postby Cronos » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:27 pm

speakers wrote:
badhat wrote:
Ersaph wrote:Question for Smiths fan: What was the earliest incident of Morrissey expressing an explicitly racist viewpoint?


i used to think it was "bengali in platforms" but it turns out it goes back further than that

In 1984 Morrissey famously said "all reggae is vile" in what may seem an innocent comment in isolation, yet it takes a more sinister form when considered amongst his consistent diatribe of bigotry. For example, a biography of the early formation of The Nosebleeds points out that around the same time Morrissey declared, "I don't hate Pakistanis, but I dislike them immensely." There is no nuance to be examined there. Morrissey had a brief punk career before stepping out with The Smiths, which included a band called Slaughter and the Dogs, which gathered a number of skinhead and suedehead fans.


so the board has venerated a complete piece of shit for years


We’ve venerated many piece of shit for years.
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Postby speakers » Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:49 pm

we should stop imo
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Postby mcwop23 » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:00 pm

who are the flawless musicians so i can still listen to them
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Postby speakers » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:03 pm

mcwop23 wrote:who are the flawless musicians so i can still listen to them


don’t do that
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Postby Kevin McCallister » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:34 am

Speakers I don't think what you're doing is fair when the context of that post is badhat discovering that piece of information for the first time.
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Postby speakers » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:43 am

that’s a fair point
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Postby FourLegsGood » Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:07 am

I'm of both sides on this issue in that I don't think we should erase the work of somebody whose early efforts gave voice to so many disenfranchised people as its important to faithfully represent history and keep it alive while simultaneously feeling the necessity to admonish Morrissey and suppress his current influence. I'm at a loss but here's a chance to plug my early REM best of, so I'll do that
https://music.apple.com/us/playlist/rem-best-of/pl.u-e98lGLjCWy6qrA
#weirdnight
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Postby odilon redon » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:31 am

the premise is dumb that one is under any moral obligation to disown the valued work of an artist who has been newly and rightly identified as a problematic creep. that being said, doing so is also completely justifiable and maybe even admirable.

anyway where i come down on this is that morrisey himself is a sub species who used to make perfect art that is still dear to my dopey self
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Postby Kenny » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:57 am

I feel like I could still maybe like The Smiths eventually because it really isn't just Morrissey but at the same time I'm giving them a huge bearth because I don't want to listen to them and find out I can't enjoy it anymore.
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Postby badhat » Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:41 pm

kinda same.

i’d be so happy for him to retire from public life and just keep refreshing my disgust with him.
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Postby struttin' evil mushroom » Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:02 pm

this was originally my thread, complete with "are you kidding me" incredulity from a few quarters, and i gotta say i'm feeling vindicated

https://forums.hipinion.com/viewtopic.php?t=70881
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Postby badhat » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:22 pm

i cant say i regret anything i said in there but have def listened to more REM than smiths in subsequent yearss
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:58 pm

it sucks cause before really knowing much about morrissey or any of them outside of the music, i always thought Bengali In Platforms was like, a sort of like, maybe a bit condescending but still a sort of like thing about sympathizing with someone who's an outsider in a culture hostile to them, like i never took "life is hard enough when you belong here" as like, an actual statement declaring the person doesn't belong, more that they are treated as an outsider. and i always liked the melody and stuff.

but i mean, even if that were his intention at the time, his bullshit lately has so like, poisoned it for me and it sucks. and it's obviously much more likely that it was a shitty sentiment, or at least that stuff kinda bubbling up if not intentional.

seems like he wasn't able to achieve this for himself

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Postby Lake » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:16 pm

i went to a Moz show at MSG in 2015 and between songs he said "the presidential election should be between bill maher..... and jon stewart"

he's just an old dumb guy.
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Postby badhat » Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:57 pm

... whos always been a white nationalist
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Postby badhat » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:04 pm

“bengali” was a really tough one for me cuz of how much i loved him and how important viva hate was to me as an adolescent. it honestly kinda saved my life and its got such a specific vibe and takes me back in a way nothing else ever has. “break up the family” was basically the theme song for my experience of my parents divorce and my dad getting sober. and i tried really hard to avoid admitting the truth abt for years, bc... yeah i thought/told myself it was just a sweet song about being an outsider. also its beautiful, musically.
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Postby kyle » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:24 pm

Badhat, would you ban Morrissey if he boarded here?
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Postby Lake » Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:31 pm

i dunno, i would't let his recent bullshit ruin everything he's ever done. he's always been a major misanthrope, is there any group of people he didn't "dislike immensely" at one point or another? he's obviously lost his mind now and is incredibly out of touch and i'm certainly not apologizing for him, but letting that ruin decades of his music is silly to me. it's incredibly disappointing but fucking everything in this world is disappointing. he hasn't actually done anything awful.

that same album badhat is referencing has a song about killing margaret thatcher. that still fucking rules.
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Postby badhat » Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:24 pm

kyle wrote:Badhat, would you ban Morrissey if he boarded here?


i dont ban ppl anymore but i wouldnt object when the mods banned him
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Postby Lowercase Tea » Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:56 pm

I dunno how to feel about Nick Cave’s thing here:

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/views-on-morrissey/
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Postby badhat » Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:10 pm

i’m not as mad abt the cave thing as some people are

its mostly inane and unsurprising and doesnt effect my estimation of cave (or moz), but i guess he nails the core of it

“He has created original and distinctive works of unparalleled beauty, that will long outlast his offending political alliances.”

the question is whether of not you believe this to be true. i guess.. to the extent that you can create a scale to weigh/compare these things, what would it even look like.

i’m pretty angry at moz both for using his platform for evil and also for betraying me and millions of other people who believed in him and whos identities are indebted to him. and it makes it pretty easy to ignore his music for now. i sorta feel for jonny marr and the boys whos legacies are now sort of toxic by association which is terribly unfair.

for me- MJ has been a really challenging/ “cancellation” bc not only is MJs music really omnipresent once youre paying attention, his influence/legacy is just ubiquitous in a way that is just impossible to erase or sanction or quarantine.
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Postby thrasher » Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:43 pm


billy bragg is good as hell
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Postby Viz » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:02 pm

Yeah, his Facebook post was good. Just perfectly captured the image of old man Morrissey sitting on his laptop, trawling through far-right websites and sharing the articles he finds there. Jesus fuckin christ, morrissey.
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Postby Deep Vneck » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:05 pm

Imagine lying to yourself and saying you're never gonna put on Bona Drag again lol not happening.
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Postby ashtrayheart » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:13 pm

i don’t think the cave thing is a big deal. it’s mostly inane and when it does address moz directly it condemns him. the broader point is about how songs are the public’s songs and counter or alternative culture kids who found comfort in this charming man shouldn’t invalidate that comfort now because moz is such an asshole. that seems like a fairly uncontriversial if unhelpful idea. a bit too much praise in there, but nothing that makes me think cave is about to have a press release saying he hates pakistanis.
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Postby Christmas Ape » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:14 pm

Dude is really just a sterling example of when you don't get any kind of higher education in the humanities, but you do have people telling you you're a poetic genius who has truly explained and mastered the human condition from the age of about 24 onward non-stop
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Postby badhat » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:15 pm

brandon flowers is also a devout mormon

I was two years old when the mormon church decided to allow black men to be ordained into its priesthood and even in many cases, admitted into the temple
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