I guess there should be a thread for the Suspiria remake!

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Postby mellowgold » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:13 pm

If your take away from this that Dakota Johnson is not good then yikes to u!
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Postby pana » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:17 pm

odilon redon wrote:dakota j was good but yeah she gets lost amongst the great performances of tilda swinton and mia goth. mia goth really needs to be in more things

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Postby madness and chaos » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:19 pm

pana wrote:
odilon redon wrote:dakota j was good but yeah she gets lost amongst the great performances of tilda swinton and mia goth. mia goth really needs to be in more things



is this good? this looks good
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Postby pana » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:21 pm

i enjoyed it (well, "enjoyed" maybe isn't the best word in this case) but no doubt half of you would hate it
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Postby ashtrayheart » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:25 pm

mellowgold wrote:If your take away from this that Dakota Johnson is not good then yikes to u!

yeah i thought she did great. i think she was cast perfectly for the role, which helped a lot, but she still found a lot of nuance throughout the movie (which it absolutely needed, being so long).
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Postby incoherent grunting » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:08 am

NO YIKES TO YOU!
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Postby mellowgold » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:35 am

wow
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Postby hyperbole man » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:08 am

hm i was lukewarm on many/perhaps most aspects of suspiria but dakota's performance was not one of them! she ruled!
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Postby incoherent grunting » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:42 am

Just kidding, Mellow Gold - movies are fun :mrgreen:
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Postby Canadian Todd (for Canadians) » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:42 pm

Haven't read thread yet so sorry if this is all facile bullshit other people have said.

Luca's Suspiria is totally indebted to Argent's in that the original was the base from which the remake intentionally and radically opposes. It's not enough to say "diverges from," because this consciously becomes its opposite in many ways. Where Argento created a technicolor fairytale that begins with Susie getting out of that airport and into that rainy dream world, Luca forces you into this earthy space that's of a very particular time and geography. Argento's Suspiria is abstracted from time and space. Luca drops us into Germany during the RAF conflict. Argento uses high contrast reds and blues. This is all earth tones - muted browns, tans, grays. It's about women and the current generation communing with the earth - a real materialist view. It goes as far as to have Dakota Johnson want to dance and bring things up fromt he ground where Tilda and the coven insists that they jump - to go up toward the heavens. Upward is central to prior generations - to an idea of Heaven, of the boomers' space race, of Forms that exist outside experience. Argento doesn't care for character. Argento is apolotical (at least he thinks so). This is different.

The generational tension is prolly the most interesting thing. The school is comprised of the elders who vote within a closed-off system that necessarily holds the young pupils in subjugation. They never have a chance to breach the elder group themselves because they're groomed simply to be vessels for the old guard - in this case, Susie for Markos. The young are born and bred to maintain the conditions in which the elders prosper. The fact that it culminates in what's supposed to be Markos' inhabiting Susie is so on the nose. That's what makes the youth in revolt turn so compelling. That's also what makes that denouement with Susie and the old man so fucking cold and hardcore. She/the current gen don't need this old dude's guilt. She also doesn't need him to be a witness to the ceremony. They don't need an old, white man's gaze to legitimize anything, and his guilt does them nothing.

So, Luca is telling us that current gen women need to violently create space for themselves, because the old and the privileged will never do willingly do so. The old man/psychologist is wildly ineffective in this. He merely tracks the course of events, but doesn't affect any change or propel the plot. This is where Luca diverges from Argento again; his foreign amateur sleuth protagonists are the engine that drives the investigation and thus the plot. Here, the old psychologist attempts to put the pieces together, but ultimately fails to do anything but fall into a trap. He's our sole relevant male character, and his only purpose is to highlight male fecklessness. That ending where Dakota sits on his bed with him is just ice cold. "We don't need your brief."

A woman saying a man's guilt doesn't remedy the past or do anything to atone for women's violent and sustained oppression or generational bloodsucking (or the holocaust or whatevs) is a testament to its uselessness. It's a p damning "fuck you" to men kinda half-assed expressing regret for something misogynistic before reveling in the fact that they acknowledge that they understand the behavior is bad. It's such a fuck you to "we've come a long way." And it makes me think to how privileged/oppressive classes want to dictate how liberation or atonement should look for the oppressed. If your man guilt doesn't fix anything, maybe we can see that a woman watns to die instead of being grieved over and "saved" (which he can't do). Once Susie's revealed to be Mother Suspiriorum, she violently rids the old guard who supported Markos and continued vampirism by conjuring that death demon and having it explode their heads. Yet Dakota personally asks what the three victims used for the sacrifice (Mia Goth, Chloe Grace Mortez and the Russian dancer) want. She actively gives victims agency over how they deal with trauma (or, y'know, having you guts hanging out). They all say death, and Dakota mercifully and lovingly gives it to them personally through a kiss. It's tender. It's compassionate. She doesn't have the demon do it. She cradles them as they die. Simultaneously, her mom dies - another victim of circumstance. It goes to show that the old man's brief might not solve the perils men bring. Women/survivors should be afforded the autonomy to cope in their own way and that might involve them electing to end it all on their terms instead of being forced to accept men's guilt as if that somehow remedies things.

That ceremony and the way the women were dancing was fucking scary. It legitimately freaked me out. Argento's Suspiria is an amazing, lavish, entirely opulent movie, but it's not scary. Women violently throwing their bodies around in this naked, ritualized way - in jerky spasms - is legit unnerving. That scene also had some The Devils and last scene in VVitch vibes. Also, the contortions of the Russian dancer in that scene were unreal and among the most violent things I've seen. The dance scene with Mia Goth being summoned after breaking her leg and dancing on it while in a trance was equally brutal.

All of this requires that there be characters with internal lives. It's important that Blanc takes a shine to - and love or rather commodity - Susie. Susie has to be from a poor, Mennonite family where she's a product of abuse. And she has to be an autodidact as opposed to having the cultural capital to be a formally trained dancer. These pieces are integral to what Luca's doing here. Characters don't function this way in Argento's movies. They're props who are always secondary to totemic nature of items - the killing tools, the objects that represent the killer's past from Deep Red, the animal sculptures in several movies (including the peacock in Suspiria). They exist as narrative ciphers that propel the viewer from setpiece-to-setpiece/kill-to-kill.The only thing revealed to you about the characters in Argento movies typically is the pop-Freudian backgrounds that inevitably compel the killers to murder sprees.

Fortifying that this attempts to ground the viewer in a time and place/a particular context as opposed to Argento's abstracted timeless set-up, Luca's DP shoots this like a '70s movie. There's tons of distanced, static shots that oversee what's happening. There's a whole lot of quick '70s zooms. I felt like the score was almost a non-entity. It was present, but it didn't do much work. Goblin's score was so loud and overwhelming. It overpowers you. Seeing the 4k restoration in the theater last year was one of the best movie going experiences I've had.

There's probably something to be said about Tilda playing the old man too. And her character is something I haven't really gotten a handle on yet.
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Postby jack » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:45 pm

i loved this.
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Postby aububs » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:52 pm

i enjoyed it a lot but more piss next time please
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Postby walt whitman » Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:25 am

really wish there were more movies like this at the theatres rn. the thanksgiving lineup looks bleak (ughh where is roma?!????)
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Postby mellowgold » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:11 pm

wimbledon, strawberries, bubbles, please protect me. happy midsumma, hope you spend it in your heart, everyone is there. bitch.
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Postby esmuydavista » Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:28 pm

Is this out of theaters already?
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Postby jack » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:26 pm

whoa yeah, its not playing anywhere around here anymore. that was fast.
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Postby odilon redon » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:51 pm

when this comes out on streaming/leaks i’m going to watch it a million times it’s going to be my new weirdo comfort food film
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Postby ashtrayheart » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:39 pm

Canadian Todd (for Canadians) wrote:Haven't read thread yet so sorry if this is all facile bullshit other people have said.

Luca's Suspiria is totally indebted to Argent's in that the original was the base from which the remake intentionally and radically opposes. It's not enough to say "diverges from," because this consciously becomes its opposite in many ways. Where Argento created a technicolor fairytale that begins with Susie getting out of that airport and into that rainy dream world, Luca forces you into this earthy space that's of a very particular time and geography. Argento's Suspiria is abstracted from time and space. Luca drops us into Germany during the RAF conflict. Argento uses high contrast reds and blues. This is all earth tones - muted browns, tans, grays. It's about women and the current generation communing with the earth - a real materialist view. It goes as far as to have Dakota Johnson want to dance and bring things up fromt he ground where Tilda and the coven insists that they jump - to go up toward the heavens. Upward is central to prior generations - to an idea of Heaven, of the boomers' space race, of Forms that exist outside experience. Argento doesn't care for character. Argento is apolotical (at least he thinks so). This is different.

The generational tension is prolly the most interesting thing. The school is comprised of the elders who vote within a closed-off system that necessarily holds the young pupils in subjugation. They never have a chance to breach the elder group themselves because they're groomed simply to be vessels for the old guard - in this case, Susie for Markos. The young are born and bred to maintain the conditions in which the elders prosper. The fact that it culminates in what's supposed to be Markos' inhabiting Susie is so on the nose. That's what makes the youth in revolt turn so compelling. That's also what makes that denouement with Susie and the old man so fucking cold and hardcore. She/the current gen don't need this old dude's guilt. She also doesn't need him to be a witness to the ceremony. They don't need an old, white man's gaze to legitimize anything, and his guilt does them nothing.

So, Luca is telling us that current gen women need to violently create space for themselves, because the old and the privileged will never do willingly do so. The old man/psychologist is wildly ineffective in this. He merely tracks the course of events, but doesn't affect any change or propel the plot. This is where Luca diverges from Argento again; his foreign amateur sleuth protagonists are the engine that drives the investigation and thus the plot. Here, the old psychologist attempts to put the pieces together, but ultimately fails to do anything but fall into a trap. He's our sole relevant male character, and his only purpose is to highlight male fecklessness. That ending where Dakota sits on his bed with him is just ice cold. "We don't need your brief."

A woman saying a man's guilt doesn't remedy the past or do anything to atone for women's violent and sustained oppression or generational bloodsucking (or the holocaust or whatevs) is a testament to its uselessness. It's a p damning "fuck you" to men kinda half-assed expressing regret for something misogynistic before reveling in the fact that they acknowledge that they understand the behavior is bad. It's such a fuck you to "we've come a long way." And it makes me think to how privileged/oppressive classes want to dictate how liberation or atonement should look for the oppressed. If your man guilt doesn't fix anything, maybe we can see that a woman watns to die instead of being grieved over and "saved" (which he can't do). Once Susie's revealed to be Mother Suspiriorum, she violently rids the old guard who supported Markos and continued vampirism by conjuring that death demon and having it explode their heads. Yet Dakota personally asks what the three victims used for the sacrifice (Mia Goth, Chloe Grace Mortez and the Russian dancer) want. She actively gives victims agency over how they deal with trauma (or, y'know, having you guts hanging out). They all say death, and Dakota mercifully and lovingly gives it to them personally through a kiss. It's tender. It's compassionate. She doesn't have the demon do it. She cradles them as they die. Simultaneously, her mom dies - another victim of circumstance. It goes to show that the old man's brief might not solve the perils men bring. Women/survivors should be afforded the autonomy to cope in their own way and that might involve them electing to end it all on their terms instead of being forced to accept men's guilt as if that somehow remedies things.

That ceremony and the way the women were dancing was fucking scary. It legitimately freaked me out. Argento's Suspiria is an amazing, lavish, entirely opulent movie, but it's not scary. Women violently throwing their bodies around in this naked, ritualized way - in jerky spasms - is legit unnerving. That scene also had some The Devils and last scene in VVitch vibes. Also, the contortions of the Russian dancer in that scene were unreal and among the most violent things I've seen. The dance scene with Mia Goth being summoned after breaking her leg and dancing on it while in a trance was equally brutal.

All of this requires that there be characters with internal lives. It's important that Blanc takes a shine to - and love or rather commodity - Susie. Susie has to be from a poor, Mennonite family where she's a product of abuse. And she has to be an autodidact as opposed to having the cultural capital to be a formally trained dancer. These pieces are integral to what Luca's doing here. Characters don't function this way in Argento's movies. They're props who are always secondary to totemic nature of items - the killing tools, the objects that represent the killer's past from Deep Red, the animal sculptures in several movies (including the peacock in Suspiria). They exist as narrative ciphers that propel the viewer from setpiece-to-setpiece/kill-to-kill.The only thing revealed to you about the characters in Argento movies typically is the pop-Freudian backgrounds that inevitably compel the killers to murder sprees.

Fortifying that this attempts to ground the viewer in a time and place/a particular context as opposed to Argento's abstracted timeless set-up, Luca's DP shoots this like a '70s movie. There's tons of distanced, static shots that oversee what's happening. There's a whole lot of quick '70s zooms. I felt like the score was almost a non-entity. It was present, but it didn't do much work. Goblin's score was so loud and overwhelming. It overpowers you. Seeing the 4k restoration in the theater last year was one of the best movie going experiences I've had.

There's probably something to be said about Tilda playing the old man too. And her character is something I haven't really gotten a handle on yet.
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great post, though i'd give a luca a bit more credit than you did in that first paragraph.
really loved the take on the epilogue, that was my wife's take as well. when i first saw it i wasnt sure how it fit with the themes of the rest of the movie but that nails it imo.

i read that NYT review and it's absolute dog shit. i mean, it's not even that deep of a metaphor but the metaphor is there and it is intentional, especially if you read any interview from the screenwriter. the berlin wall and the situation in germany is mirrored exactly by the politics of the coven. thats why luca and his writer wanted to place it in 1977, and thats all stuff they added. just a lazy review
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Postby aububs » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:25 am

ever since seeing this I've been looking at parquet floors online
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Postby mellowgold » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:28 am

aububs wrote:ever since seeing this I've been looking at parquet floors online


my bedroom has parquet floors Image
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Postby mellowgold » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:29 am

i keep thinking about how people in the movie called Chloe Grace Moretz's character Patricia the american way and then later on in the movie she's referred to as like PATRIITTZZIA
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Postby aububs » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:35 am

mellowgold wrote:
aububs wrote:ever since seeing this I've been looking at parquet floors online


my bedroom has parquet floors Image


we have parquet floors in our living room but not the cool ornately designed ones like in this movie. that's what I want. so classy.
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Postby Poptone » Wed Nov 21, 2018 9:55 am

i still haven't seen this but i bought the score the other day and it's very lovely (and creepy)

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Postby aububs » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:36 am

i liked the score but when his vocals came in during the 6th act it sort of ruined the mood for me somewhat
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Postby aububs » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:25 am

chatting to a friend last night and we both mentioned that Possession came to mind while watching this.

it would make a great companion piece to Possession. they'd compliment and echo eachother in a double bill. screen susperia first and I think it would become clear how Possession is a sort of dance movie too. the infamous underpass scene is echoed in the "marionette" scene where dakota johnson manipulates the other woman with her dance moves. I think some white liquid may even come out of the woman during that scene?

the location and era in susperia obviously recalls Possession. and also in Possession there are literally scenes where adjani's doppleganger is at a dance class. the camera is also very balletic in Possession. it's exciting that guadalgino's movie has that Possession vibe. I wonder did he have it in mind when making it.

just thoughts. liking this movie more and more. need to rewatch.
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Postby number none » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:31 am

well it definitely inspired the costume designer, so I'd say you're on to something

In addition to taking notes from Rosemary’s Baby, Piersanti lifted ideas from 1970s-era Rainer Werner Fassbinder films and the 1981 psychological thriller Possession. “I adore the original Suspiria and it has been very inspirational for me for many years,” Piersanti says. “But with remakes, it’s the worst idea to take from the original. You have to make the extra effort to tell your own vision.”
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Postby manvstrees » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:23 am

im really in favor of most of the choices that went into this when i reflect on it, and i find most of the big reviews that came out against it to be reaching and oddly pissy.
artforum bit on it came out recently and was full of the critic making odd comparisons to back up their vitriol. i think a lot of it is just impatience.
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Postby sadville » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:33 pm

i don't have Great Thoughts on this or anything other than that it was a badass theater-going experience!

unfortunatley i missed out on goblin playing live to argento's last month :/
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Postby Poptone » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:36 pm

sadville wrote:i don't have Great Thoughts on this or anything other than that it was a badass theater-going experience!

unfortunatley i missed out on goblin playing live to argento's last month :/



They played here on Friday night and I passed - it's a FOUR-HOUR show (complete screening of Suspiria w/ live score, and then another whole set of other Goblin stuff) and with very limited seating...yeah. I'll do that for Springsteen but that's a whole lot more energetic and active.
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Postby vivian darko » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:29 am

i loved this holy shit
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