is shield+rolling just worse than spot dodging? or easier for good people to punish? sometimes i think i should be invuln while rolling out of shield but still get hit midway
i thought i didn't see many people in that tournament doing it too often but i'm not sure
Typically spot dodging is the better option vs. rolling since it's a bit more difficult to punish. It can be punished of course if you spam it too much just like rolling. It's also dependent on some match ups considering some attacks are multi hit or have lingering hit boxes that can "catch" spot dodges.
generally you want to be out of range of stuff, there's a ton of moves that cover rolls pretty reliably. and yeah as people have said they get worse the more you use them
in general you only really want to be in shield when your opponent is coming in contact with it, obviously thats impossible but shielding greatly restricts your movement/options, sothere are situations where running out of range/jumping/counter hitting is a better option. once you're in shield your options really boil down to like, grab/roll/spotdodge/up-smash/up-b/jump so it's less of a guessing game for your opponent
another thing is when you're learning what your opponent likes to do and trying to find ways to punish their habits, figuring out someone is a roller makes it 100% easier to beat them in neutral
oh no i was talking about project M, a brawl mod that made it more like melee that was really popular. snake was an absolute monster, his up-b had a multihit electric attack when you used it so if you hit his shield he'd up-b out and then hello welcome to a snake combo
Last edited by lil bro on Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
spot dodging is super risky, so you only want to do it when you can reliably read your opponent's move/tempo, react, and punish said move. otherwise there's a good chance you're just going to get blown up. i'd only throw out spam if you're getting very pressured and your shield is low, and a random one if you're going to get grabbed in shield pressure and don't have another option.
rolling is a pretty safe way to run away, in that you can get from a dangerous area to a safe area. it's really hard to beat good roll campers online. rolling away from your opponent from a dangerous area to another dangerous area will also get you blown up, though, because your opponent can run at you and hit you after you come back up. rolling into and behind the enemy can be good after they do a laggy move to pressure them in advantage, and can occasionally be used as a hard read, but it's also super risky.
parrying is basically a safer spot dodge that punishes harder, but it'll be awhile before i even think of putting it into my game.
when i shield, i'm taking the hit because i generally think i can punish my opponent after they hit me with a shield grab or aerial out of shield. shielding is also an important game theory thing in neutral when neither player has a read on the other (if you have the option of throwing out a random move, running around, and shielding, generally shielding will punish the random move, the random move can (but won't always) punish someone running around but will get punished hard if you whiff, and the person shielding generally won't get punished by the person running around because they still have oos options, though it can (but won't always) put them at a disadvantage because they're immobile.
generally..defense is weak in smash games. the best defensive options are shield, general spacing, (and parry), because they all allow you to counter punish your opponent. for example, yeah you'll probably need some defensive option when you're getting run over by pichu, and a lot of shielding, but the best option is to trade mid combo or use a fast move to combo break (mkleo did this to void with up-b to break combos, probably 95% of why he won genesis), or to catch your opponent with a properly spaced, safe move, so he never hits you in the first place (think of when lucina does an aerial that doesnt connect with you, but could have if you jumped into it, and then she floats backwards out of your range after the move so it's very difficult to get into range to punish)
Last bit of info I need regarding Round 1 matches that have already occurred:
nautical v. new blood, 2 or 3 games and if it was 3 what was the sequence? (loss win win / win loss win) The Unblinking Eye v. kirito, I know it was 3 games but what was the sequence?
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Every Regular Round 1 match is complete except Ddiamondd v. Kenny. I’m going to give them more time to schedule the battle since Kenny just stepped in a few days ago. If y’all could try and get that match done by the 13th that would be great and keep us roughly on schedule. That will still give us time to wrap up all of the Regular and Redemption Rounds 1 & 2 by the 18th-ish.