borderline

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:56 am

i love that song, i don't have much problems with the bpd people i know, with one kinda but eventually i always manage to fix that too, takes a whole lot of patience and you've to really know what's going on in communication, i don't have any advice or anything, it's all individual specific
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Postby Tai-Pan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:05 am

black mamba wrote:after reading some literature and thinking about it tbh i can see some times in my life where i exhibited features of this disorder. not at all at the degree that we're talking about itt but in type. like it's definitely not a random bundle of symptoms; there is a logic to it imo. i think that because we don't have a word for it like 'anxiety' or 'depression' it's hard recognize it as a thing and all the gradients of it but that's just my amateur opinion. and it should definitely not be stigmatized because it seems general education would be really helpful


Interesting... I work in the field of mental health and frequently work with PDs, generally BPD and ASPD (borderline + antisocial) and this is an unusual view. First, its' not really fair to compare it to anxiety and depression since those are categorized as 'mental illness' and what we are talking about are personality disorders, which are much more behavioral and interpersonal in their presentation and it's at this level that we see the 'clinically significant functional impairments' and also where treatment begins. whereas depression and anxiety - i believe - are absolutely "bundles of symptoms" and more 'organic' in nature i.e., medication is often the first line of treatment followed by therapy. someone with a dx of depression can variously struggle with symptoms such as amotivation, isolation, cognitive distortions, lethargy, anhedonia, helplessness, hopelessness, suicidality, anger, mood instability, negative self-image, etc.

I don't mean to come across as trying to challenge you, but I have often found that there is profound misunderstanding out there with regard to mental health (duh), but especially so with personality disorders... even within the field of mental health (almost more so at times... yikes!)
User avatar
Tai-Pan
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:15 am

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:46 am

Tai-Pan wrote:
black mamba wrote:after reading some literature and thinking about it tbh i can see some times in my life where i exhibited features of this disorder. not at all at the degree that we're talking about itt but in type. like it's definitely not a random bundle of symptoms; there is a logic to it imo. i think that because we don't have a word for it like 'anxiety' or 'depression' it's hard recognize it as a thing and all the gradients of it but that's just my amateur opinion. and it should definitely not be stigmatized because it seems general education would be really helpful


Interesting... I work in the field of mental health and frequently work with PDs, generally BPD and ASPD (borderline + antisocial) and this is an unusual view. First, its' not really fair to compare it to anxiety and depression since those are categorized as 'mental illness' and what we are talking about are personality disorders, which are much more behavioral and interpersonal in their presentation and it's at this level that we see the 'clinically significant functional impairments' and also where treatment begins. whereas depression and anxiety - i believe - are absolutely "bundles of symptoms" and more 'organic' in nature i.e., medication is often the first line of treatment followed by therapy. someone with a dx of depression can variously struggle with symptoms such as amotivation, isolation, cognitive distortions, lethargy, anhedonia, helplessness, hopelessness, suicidality, anger, mood instability, negative self-image, etc.

I don't mean to come across as trying to challenge you, but I have often found that there is profound misunderstanding out there with regard to mental health (duh), but especially so with personality disorders... even within the field of mental health (almost more so at times... yikes!)


Well the field of psychology is a profound misunderstanding in itself, instead of focusing on helping people in the best way possible, the main focus is still the creation of these images for people to identify with, called diagnosis, which is supposed to be a tool that can create some kind of structure to be able to provide help. But instead people are being forced to take on these roles so they can get categorized into groups, and then identification occurs. Since human beings learn by imitation, mimesis creates this false reality of mental illness images we now have learned to live by.
Personality disorders are still fairly new, so unlike depression and anxiety they haven't fully become a part of our culture yet, but they will and then they'll also be a bundle of symptoms for people to identify with.

I'm not trying to deny the reality of experience by claiming what I just said, what people go through is real because we let it become real, we don't look for what's causing these real experiences so they can be altered in a way that doesn't just create more suffering through the act of putting names on experience, we give them the right to exist as they occur right now, which is a very bad thing to do cause by doing that the individual is held responsible for what's wrong in our culture, everything stays wrong that way.

There should be general education, but not about what these diagnosis are, cause then we only educate people to identify with them, which everyone can do since all the symptoms are just descriptions of human experience, everyone is capable of identifying with certain mental illnesses but nobody should ever have to do that.
What we should educate people on is what all these images of mental illnesses mean for our culture, altering culture is altering experience, what we communicate is what we become, and our communication is shit.
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Postby Tai-Pan » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:03 am

"instead of focusing on helping people in the best way possible, the main focus is still the creation of these images for people to identify with, called diagnosis, which is supposed to be a tool that can create some kind of structure to be able to provide help."

how do you suggest help be provided then? i don't disagree that our current DSM model of diagnosis is flawed, but that doesn't mean its unhelpful. we just dont have a better system. there's no 'biomedical model' for diagnosing mental health; no MRI, bloodwork, CT scan, etc... yet. but research is well underway to hopefully get there. but diagnostic challenges aside, mental illness is real and there are real interventions and treatment options which help. i guess i'm not really following what you're conveying here. do you mean to say the field of psychology is culpable for the stigmatization of mental illness?
User avatar
Tai-Pan
 
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:15 am

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:22 am

Tai-Pan wrote:"instead of focusing on helping people in the best way possible, the main focus is still the creation of these images for people to identify with, called diagnosis, which is supposed to be a tool that can create some kind of structure to be able to provide help."

how do you suggest help be provided then? i don't disagree that our current DSM model of diagnosis is flawed, but that doesn't mean its unhelpful. we just dont have a better system. there's no 'biomedical model' for diagnosing mental health; no MRI, bloodwork, CT scan, etc... yet. but research is well underway to hopefully get there. but diagnostic challenges aside, mental illness is real and there are real interventions and treatment options which help. i guess i'm not really following what you're conveying here. do you mean to say the field of psychology of mental illness is culpable for the stigmatization of mental illness?


pretty much, the dsm model is unhelpful and it's a true evil, every monolopy is cause it creates a reality people are forced to experience, just like you just accept that the dsm model is helpful cause you have no idea what kind of possibilities of alternative help there even are, you can't see beyond this reality of diagnosis.
I already suggested how help should be provided, by making this reality transparent so people do not have to suffer individually but can actually realise where suffering comes from, not from individual experience but from the state of the human condition.
Try looking at it like this, humanity is this machine, every person in it is a little part that makes that machine function, the machine is not working as it should and parts are just breaking, mental illness is trying to fix those parts with the wrong tool and the machine is still not working as it should, so more and more parts are breaking while none are being properly fixed. So the options are, shut down the machine and use the parts to build a new one that actually works, or to find a tool that can fix the parts.

I'm not gonna write out my actual ideas for a new system on this forum, just know that people are working on new systems for different realities, paradigms don't just shift, they slowly develop and thats why you don't notice that this reality is only a fabrication, it's fine to go along with it but you don't have to believe in it, you can do a whole lot of harm that way
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:35 am

Awww, basically what i'm saying comes down to this, thinking ahead and seeing possibilities for a better future is very good for your mental health, and the more people that do it, the more chance there is that the world can become better than this, waiting on things to change while only trying to fix what's already completely broken, is not helpful at all, but still thank you for helping people right now, keep trying to help people.
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Postby an otter » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:36 am

gonna be hard to sell your culturally holistic perspective on mental illness to people who legit would die without their medication and are thankful for being diagnosed so they know where to start with help, elaine.
ˁᵔᵜᵔˀ
User avatar
an otter
 
Posts: 15350
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:40 pm
Location: tier 3 (canadian tier 4)

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:40 am

i'm not selling it to people, i don't sell anything to people, everything i do i do for free, cause my will is to help, what you're saying is not an arguement, it's an excuse for your own deception, don't address that to me, it wont be of any help to you
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:46 am

help isn't a product, to help is to be human, by thinking it is a product you sell yourself, i hope you may find out who bought you
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:53 am

aw it's not that important right now, only thing i want to really say in this thread is, don't ever give up on people because of what you have learned to call them, take as much time off as you need when it gets too hard in the moment, but don't ever give up on people because of what you have learned to call them
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Postby an otter » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:21 am

i was using the word sell like convince people to adopt, and i don't think anybody's suggesting diagnosis is a replacement for compassion/acceptance, but your response gave me my answer i guess
ˁᵔᵜᵔˀ
User avatar
an otter
 
Posts: 15350
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:40 pm
Location: tier 3 (canadian tier 4)

Postby elaine » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:28 am

you did not ask me a question, i did not give you an answer, i know how you used the word sell, i know how i used the word sell, i don't think anybody's suggesting anything at all but maybe somebody should cause anybody could
I'm alright, don't nobody worry 'bout me .... BLACK IT OUT... BLACK IT OUT.... BLACK IT ALL OUT

tarantula wrote:yeah, elaine gets it

dvr wrote:I gotta listen to that Chills
User avatar
elaine
 
Posts: 3316
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:27 am
Location: beachy head phone booth

Previous

Return to Mamma Mia... Here We Go Again....

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ahungbunny, Annie May, aqxmission, Autarch, average deceiver, barrier, based dana scully, becky, Big Oil, blue sunshine, buboclot, building jumper, Celiac, Chazzwozzer, chopperpilot, Chyet, conductor, crisp butty, Dad: The Boarder, death is my amigo, draw, droctagon2000, endless dave, Enemy Ace, Eyeball Kid, Ezekiel Cletus, Feech La Manna, Ferrous Bueller, fester, gassy, glaucon, goldmatt, Google [Bot], hbb, hit record, hoopdog, Ides of Smarch, inmate, inspectorhound, internethandle, Intervalo, jack, Jimmy Firecracker, jon, KALM, Kiki, landspeedrecord, laserblast, light rail coyote, Lonesome Hobo, marble, mcwop23, Mesh, messier object, mini, mmmbop, mondrary, Mr Squishy, mworth, neopolitan, nicecatbutchicken, normal finkenstein, nosebleeds, pablito, palmer eldritch, Paul, pink snake, Pops Freshenmeyer, port, pzadvance, Quigley, quinine, Ray Blanchard, PhD, sassafras socks, scrambled, snuggle, Sobieski, sudokuthug, super gas, surly, tgk, This Guy, thrasher, unsandpiper, wario lopez, wuk, xxx-xxx-xxxx, yawn, yungboi