spice world: villeneuve's dune

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rate dune (0 trash, 10 masterpiece)

1
2
1%
2
2
1%
3
1
0%
4
12
6%
5
12
6%
6
21
10%
7
43
20%
8
69
33%
9
31
15%
10
17
8%
 
Total votes : 210

Postby Merciel » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:46 am

"Allegorical" is kind of overstating it.

Yes, the Fremen are literally how a reasonably open-minded but also culturally naive white mystic bro in the early 1960s did Space Muslims.
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Postby Merciel » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:52 am

There is, to be clear, no malice in how Herbert borrowed from Muslim mystic traditions and was inspired by that system of beliefs and history to create his own thinly veiled SF version. As far as contemporaneous SF writers handled cultural borrowings, he's easily high second tier at the worst. His most grievous offense is granting magical powers to his various Others, and then making Paul magically able to use all the traditions from the women-only Bene Gesserit and the Space Muslims and every other wish fulfillment minority-run superpowered org in the universe (although, unlike almost every other writer who did this, his Gary Stu at least had to deal with some of the drawbacks of being in that position).

But yeah they're totally Space Muslims and it's not even subtle.
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Postby Average J » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:26 am

Well, I watched it again. I felt like I needed to. In spite of not loving it, there was something about it I couldn't let go.
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Postby auspice » Sun Nov 14, 2021 2:18 am

I mean there's just such a shortage of decent big-budget fare that isn't tied to over-established franchises, Dune was bound to make an impact among anyone sick of capeshit
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Postby hbb » Sun Nov 14, 2021 8:54 am

I like my science fiction au spice
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Postby farmer » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:18 am

auspice wrote:
Rainbow Battle Kid wrote:they seem cool and sympathetic imo?

fwiw that line about like "they're BRUTAL" is referring to the harkonnens iirc. i thought the movie presented them as reasonably suspicious of the Atreides, and the only people with contempt for them seemed to be the Harkonnens, other than some fear of them ahead of time by like, Gurney and Paul or whatever but that stuff turning out to be unfounded is kinda of part of that arc I thought?

i dunno im an idiot lol


I just meant their initial presentation, obviously the story itself shows them in a positive light but it felt like the source material's translation to the big screen made them out to be allegorical Muslims at first.

it kinda felt on par with how the Belters in The Expanse, who are the stand-ins for the lower class in that universe, are also given completely ridiculous accents for no discernible reason other than to highlight their other-ness. just felt weird to me.


i love the ridiculous accents in the expanse tbh
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Postby shizaam » Sun Nov 14, 2021 9:40 am

Thought this was pretty good on herbert, denis, and the space Muslims https://www.vulture.com/2021/10/dune-ha ... oblem.html
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Postby auspice » Sun Nov 14, 2021 12:58 pm

farmer wrote:
auspice wrote:
Rainbow Battle Kid wrote:they seem cool and sympathetic imo?

fwiw that line about like "they're BRUTAL" is referring to the harkonnens iirc. i thought the movie presented them as reasonably suspicious of the Atreides, and the only people with contempt for them seemed to be the Harkonnens, other than some fear of them ahead of time by like, Gurney and Paul or whatever but that stuff turning out to be unfounded is kinda of part of that arc I thought?

i dunno im an idiot lol


I just meant their initial presentation, obviously the story itself shows them in a positive light but it felt like the source material's translation to the big screen made them out to be allegorical Muslims at first.

it kinda felt on par with how the Belters in The Expanse, who are the stand-ins for the lower class in that universe, are also given completely ridiculous accents for no discernible reason other than to highlight their other-ness. just felt weird to me.


i love the ridiculous accents in the expanse tbh


easily my least favorite part of the show, especially since there’s no distinct accent for earthers/martians, just belters. got way worse once they had Naomi start primarily speaking like a belter.
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Postby delgriffith » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:10 pm

been 2 weeks since i watched this and i can't remember anything except Oscar Isaac splayed out. not a good movie
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Postby big zorb » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:13 pm

the part i remember is how all of the zendaya shots feel like that natalie portman perfume commercial
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Postby Buzz Fledderjohn » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:38 pm

i think bob pattinson needs to play feyd
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Postby swamp angel » Sun Nov 14, 2021 1:48 pm

big zorb wrote:the part i remember is how all of the zendaya shots feel like that natalie portman perfume commercial


come on now give her some credit, they feel like that zendaya perfume commercial
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Postby extendedphenotype » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:13 pm

Zendaya Mondatta
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Postby sliiimer » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:35 pm

Tilda for feyd
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Postby cartola » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:48 pm

going thru some ritual spice agony rn
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Postby churrokbyme » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:42 pm

I voted 7.

completely different experience than the lynch ofc; I went in with different expectations. I don't have strong opinions on how they handled the characters, seemed equally bad as the lynch dune in this respect and it might just be because the character development in the source material isn't great to begin with. It's been over a decade since I read dune, and good science fiction is about ideas, not emotional sophistication anyway IMO.

what I expected to be, and was, delighted by were some of the visual motifs in the new dune. generally, every scene looked like a painting from the future cities subreddit which was cool. specifically

I liked how they handled the design of the sardukar. In the lynch film, I just couldn't shake laughing from the design that to me looked like trashbag rainponcho/hazmat suits with neon green lighting. I thought the daftpunk helmet aesthetic worked pretty well for the sardukar, spacing guild, etc. the being painted with the blood of human sacrifices was a bit silly, but I thought the incorporation of gyuto monk drone was dope. I thought the way lynch handled the harkonnen/baron harkonnen design was still a lot weirder and better though.

I really liked this one little visual detail: when the judge of the change is stabbed in the back, instead of blood spraying out water sprays out of her moisture suit, further playing with the idea that water is basically lifeblood on arrakis which I thought was an elegant way to visually symbolize that and really well done.
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hideout wrote:i think the problem is that the founding fathers were all really hot, so protections for hot people are ingrained in the constitution
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Postby extendedphenotype » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:51 pm

Hot take - maybe the characters in dune just aren’t good? I couldn’t tell the difference between gurney halleck and Duncan Idaho in the first book other than gurney playing an instrument.
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Postby dr. badvibes » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:04 pm

finally saw this and liked it

my biggest problem was its confused presentation of the dumb weapon rules of the Duneiverse. there were a couple of times when people/vehicles used something that, to a layman, would probably be identified as a laser. i'm sure in the storyboards those things are clearly labeled as PARTICLE BEAMERS or whatever, but if they exist in the universe it messes up the whole sword/shield/lasgun paradigm
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Postby frog bongino » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:11 pm

yeah what would've happened if that door cutting beam hit one of the shields?
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Postby extendedphenotype » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:11 pm

They never established that paradigm here anyway
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Postby dr. badvibes » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:43 pm

my second strongest complaint is about the thoughtless use of contemporary slang in any movie that is supposed to depict a fantasy realm, the distant past, far future, etc. especially in this setting where everyone speaks formally/ritualistically most of the time. but there were only two bad instances i remember (whereas some screenplays do it constantly)

Gurney to paul: "You just don't get it!"
Duke (I think? maybe it was hawat?): "You're good to go."

would it have been so hard to type You just don't understand and You may proceed in sted
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:47 pm

imo Star Wars hits a perfect balance for that stuff

though i dunno how much of that is just familiarity with it so it doesn't register. but yeah "good to go" stood out to me weirdly. it SORT of makes sense as a weird mishmash where there's elements of old earth culture there but yeah felt odd
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Postby light rail coyote » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:29 pm

extendedphenotype wrote:Hot take - maybe the characters in dune just aren’t good? I couldn’t tell the difference between gurney halleck and Duncan Idaho in the first book other than gurney playing an instrument.


yeah. the book is good for the world building and premise but it's not, like, super deep or anything, just complicated. the movie arguably gives jessica more depth than the book does.

anyway, thinking it over after re-reading the book and if I do have one complaint I wish it had been a bit weirder. granted, most of the weirdest stuff happens in the second half that we haven't seen yet but I'm gonna be bummed if jessica drinking the water of life is just a bunch of non-linear rapid cuts to stuff with drone music playing over top of it instead of something genuinely psychedelic or visually ambitious. dont get me wrong, I think that the movie does a good job at establishing scope and the fact that they're in an an antiquated future but it's pretty clinical and literal in its visual approach and that's a pet peeve of mine in contemporary filmmaking in general. like inception is supposed to be in thos dream world but it's just hotels and office buildings that are uPsIdE dOwN or dr strange is supposed to be this cosmic thing but it's just bUiLdInGs aRe MoViNg and there's no real visual ambition of sense of surrealness to it.

say what you want about the lynch version feeling unfinished, but the space folding sequence still has this "the fuck is this universe" element to it that I'd like to see here once it hits those parts of the story but I'm sure that instead its gonna just be a bunch of cuts between a child crying in a field and some clouds moving in time lapse or some shit
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Postby dr. badvibes » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:41 pm

how many times have you had a dream (or done drugs, for that matter) where your mind's eye generated a comprehensive mc escher kaleidoscope disneyworld though (as opposed to just producing a weirded version of the mundane world)

i actually appreciated the way this movie did its prophetic dreams (ie. all the images he saw were vague/empty metaphors, nothing he saw actually transpired)
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Postby light rail coyote » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:42 pm

sure but the prophetic dreams were, aside from the "they didn't happen like that in the real world," filmed the same as dream sequences in all of these things. just totally sterile.

and sure dreams don't actually look like a lynch movie IRL but film doesn't need to be like IRL! that's why it's film!!
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Postby kirito » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:43 pm

agreed, as someone who finished the book just before the movie i thought paul's visions of jamis before they meet in which he becomes his friend and mentor were a brilliant way of visually showing that paul's visions are unreliable and often one of multiple possible paths
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Postby ashtrayheart » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:46 pm

been two weeks since i saw this and i still love it! i’m lucky to be a part of the world where this movie comes out.
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Postby ashtrayheart » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:47 pm

yeah i loved the dream sequences/premonitions
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Postby churrokbyme » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:53 pm

couldn't agree more LRC. I was definitely kinda bummed that the new dune didn't even attempt to have a cool space folding sequence like the Lynch film, despite the new film showing off "check out what CGI can do now!" at every opportunity.

Similarly, I thought the CGI desert mouse symbolism thing was pretty uninspired.
hideout wrote:i think the problem is that the founding fathers were all really hot, so protections for hot people are ingrained in the constitution
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Postby churrokbyme » Thu Nov 18, 2021 2:56 pm

besides those, however, I kinda agree with badvibes that the more minimal hypnotic/premonition sequences, while certainly absent the level of weirdness that Lynch pulls off, worked well enough.
hideout wrote:i think the problem is that the founding fathers were all really hot, so protections for hot people are ingrained in the constitution
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