More like Notre Damnnnnn

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Postby brittle » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:48 pm

yeah, if people are really mourning the loss of this structure that's cool and valid and you 100% have my sympathy

but as someone who feels absolutely nothing for this event, i can't help but think that many people's reaction is somehwere between 'art-lover' virtue signaling and social media tragedy porn.

but i'm also not ruling out the possibility that maybe i'm just a psychopath.

sorry to those who are hurting right now.
Last edited by brittle on Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby brittle » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:49 pm

Lucky wrote:So basically everything but the spire and the roof was saved/undamaged? Is what I'm getting from my vague following of events.


Also I just saw there's a Chipotle like a block away so I guess things worked out well for everyone

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lol
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Postby Kenny » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:51 pm

we're all born naked and the rest is virtue signalling
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Postby groupb » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:00 pm

you should have this 2015 cook islands coin, wendy


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Postby argent » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:00 pm

brittle wrote:yeah, if people are really mourning the loss of this structure that's cool and valid and you 100% have my sympathy

but as someone who feels absolutely nothing for this event, i can't help but think that many people's reaction is somehwere between 'art-lover' virtue signaling and social media tragedy porn.

but i'm also not ruling out the possibility that maybe i'm just a psychopath.

sorry to those who are hurting right now.


I feel like the posts ITT about the personal connection many people feel to this place should tell you that it’s not just people trying to show off?

Like, I don’t know if I’d feel as strongly if the Taj Mahal was destroyed. I’d feel bad, but not having seen it, it would have less of an impact. But I probably wouldn’t assume that people who were upset about it were faking it for some weird reason.
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Postby argent » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:06 pm

St. Chappelle is cooler, btw.
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Postby Fr. Blanc » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:08 pm

argent wrote:St. Chappelle is cooler, btw.

well it wasnt just on fire for 8 hours for one thing
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Postby brittle » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:08 pm

argent wrote:
brittle wrote:yeah, if people are really mourning the loss of this structure that's cool and valid and you 100% have my sympathy

but as someone who feels absolutely nothing for this event, i can't help but think that many people's reaction is somehwere between 'art-lover' virtue signaling and social media tragedy porn.

but i'm also not ruling out the possibility that maybe i'm just a psychopath.

sorry to those who are hurting right now.


I feel like the posts ITT about the personal connection many people feel to this place should tell you that it’s not just people trying to show off?

Like, I don’t know if I’d feel as strongly if the Taj Mahal was destroyed. I’d feel bad, but not having seen it, it would have less of an impact. But I probably wouldn’t assume that people who were upset about it were faking it for some weird reason.

yeah, i made the post before people started sharing their stories and my opinion has definitely evolved.

still, i do really believe there exist people who are pretending to care more than they do though. and i think their reasons for doing so are misguided/bad.
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Postby chimp » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:10 pm

Not sure why it’s so tough to comprehend why people feel bummed about this
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Postby argent » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:11 pm

The idea that no one really cares about anything and that they are just trying to gain some kind of weird status through the performance of caring is a deeply pernicious notion that we should not succumb to. It feels like the root of so much of what is wrong in contemporary society.
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Postby brittle » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:12 pm

chimp wrote:Not sure why it’s so tough to comprehend why people feel bummed about this

brittle wrote:
but i'm also not ruling out the possibility that maybe i'm just a psychopath.
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Postby groupb » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:14 pm

brittle, maybe think of certain world heritage sites as some people's pinarello dogma? hope that helps
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Postby chimp » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:19 pm

bunejug wrote:
alaska wrote:man the tone i feel i need to strike to respond to this event is very strange


this expectation of solemnity is sort of what I'm getting at. how is that sadness constructed without prompting, but only for specific losses? why do people feel like these treasures are a global heritage when this globalized, open-access mentality is fictitious for most (migrants, refugees)? not just responding to reactions in this thread, but the general discourse around historic monuments and art. it'd be nice if that desire for cross-cultural learning was reflected in economic and social systems, but the very nature of these sites and artifacts being presented as a universal human commons depends on an extractive industry rooted in economic and social exclusion.

we should be critical of how the media portrays these events, this isn't a virtue-signaling woke twitter take. macron has been tear gassing his own citizens who are protesting for economic justice, yet instead most press outlets will cover his vow to reconstruct the cathedral. this plan will most likely be funded partially by former french colonies whose citizens probably will not ever see notre dame let alone be able to step on european soil. I'm happy that it's structurally sound and that much of the art was saved, but I still think it's worthwhile deconstructing the symbolic politics and the material violence that preserve these sites and that prompt such strong reactions when these sites are threatened/destroyed.


Does anyone really think that Notre Dame is a “universal human commons” though? For me it seems clearly a product of European Christian civilisation and I think the popular response to this event in the West reflects that
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Postby Autarch » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:21 pm

I only bothered to take one picture the whole time I was in paris last month. It was a picture of the windows at notre dame. They're v beautiful and I'm glad they're saved.
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Postby Seamus » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:23 pm

So according to the Guardian there is over 600m euro pledged to rebuild this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/16/hundreds-millions-pledged-help-rebuild-notre-dame-after-fire

The French billionaire Bernard Arnault and his luxury goods group LVMH promised on Tuesday to donate €200m (£170m), hours after his longstanding rival François Pinault, the fashion and retail magnate, announced he was giving €100m.

The Bettencourt family, part-owners of L’Oréal, will contribute €200m, the energy group Total €100m, and the brothers Martin and Olivier Bouygues of the eponymous construction, media and telecoms firm announced a personal donation of €10m, as did an American couple, Henry and Marie-Josée Kravis.


The mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, said the city would provide €50m and organise an international donors’ conference to coordinate gifts from abroad. The Île-de-France region of which Paris is a part pledged a further €10m.

Macron has said a national appeal, likely to be accompanied by tax incentives, would be launched as soon as possible, and the privately run French Heritage Foundation said its call for donations had raised €2m from individuals by midday on Tuesday.

A range of fundraising events have already been announced, including benefit matches featuring France’s World Cup football champions and a star-studded concert to be broadcast on Saturday night on French public television.

Unesco has said it will help France assess and repair the damage to the cathedral, which typically welcomes 13 million visitors a year, while Italy, Russia and Germany all offered to send restoration experts.


no mention of the catholic church donating anything yet.

I know it can be shitty to criticise how people spend their money, but I feel nauseous at how much money can emerge in the space of 24 hours to repair a building.
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Postby fester » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:45 pm

if theyve got that much donated they can just bulldoze it and make the most incredible chipotle ever
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Postby forest design » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:46 pm

Ides of Smarch wrote:brittle if grenfell made you sad and angry, you're not a psychopath. not all structure fires are equal.

i get why people are sad about this. it doesn't need further emphasis. but when billionaires immediately donate ridiculous sums of money toward restoration, i reflexively feel more than a little bit of cynicism and disgust, honestly.


This is pretty much how it's always been done, though, no? The Catholic Church didn't build the first structure or keep it up throughout the centuries by passing the straw basket around before communion...
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Postby Milquetoaster Strudels » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:53 pm

It's normal and healthy to grieve the loss of a great and lasting achievement of humanity. The things that outlive us and speak to the beautiful things we are capable of as a species, in spite of our worst impulses and actions, should be cherished and protected. Our great architectural achievements are the finest and most lasting examples of that capability and resolve, and as has been pointed out, are a testament to some of humanity's best qualities.
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Postby Jefferson Zeppelin » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:53 pm

is berthillon ok
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Postby lockheed » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:56 pm

i can't believe henry kravis is still alive and putting his money on things
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Postby truncated » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:56 pm

wanna be the first on page 15 to confirm that wendy's post made me cry
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Postby gauchebag » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:02 pm

Seamus wrote:So according to the Guardian there is over 600m euro pledged to rebuild this

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/16/hundreds-millions-pledged-help-rebuild-notre-dame-after-fire

The French billionaire Bernard Arnault and his luxury goods group LVMH promised on Tuesday to donate €200m (£170m), hours after his longstanding rival François Pinault, the fashion and retail magnate, announced he was giving €100m.

The Bettencourt family, part-owners of L’Oréal, will contribute €200m, the energy group Total €100m, and the brothers Martin and Olivier Bouygues of the eponymous construction, media and telecoms firm announced a personal donation of €10m, as did an American couple, Henry and Marie-Josée Kravis.


The mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, said the city would provide €50m and organise an international donors’ conference to coordinate gifts from abroad. The Île-de-France region of which Paris is a part pledged a further €10m.

Macron has said a national appeal, likely to be accompanied by tax incentives, would be launched as soon as possible, and the privately run French Heritage Foundation said its call for donations had raised €2m from individuals by midday on Tuesday.

A range of fundraising events have already been announced, including benefit matches featuring France’s World Cup football champions and a star-studded concert to be broadcast on Saturday night on French public television.

Unesco has said it will help France assess and repair the damage to the cathedral, which typically welcomes 13 million visitors a year, while Italy, Russia and Germany all offered to send restoration experts.


no mention of the catholic church donating anything yet.

I know it can be shitty to criticise how people spend their money, but I feel nauseous at how much money can emerge in the space of 24 hours to repair a building.


donating to the catholic church? LOL. i get that the government of paris (france?) technically owns the land but i'm pretty sure they don't need your donation either

this is a scam basically to get the money they otherwise couldn't raise for renovation. (where's brittle for that take?)

and for the record, i am partially of french descent, i lived in france for a year, i speak french but surely the french government and catholic church can handle this one right?
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Postby gauchebag » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:05 pm

this is like when you're buying something on amazon and amazon prompts you WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE A DONATION? to some cause

Why don't you donate some of those federal tax dollars you don't pay amirite
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Postby Kenny » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:16 pm

Dang, the catholic church burning it to raise interest for renovations is a pretty good conspiracy. Explains all the cool stuff surviving
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Postby Kenny » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:18 pm

The Blunchblack of Blotre Blame
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Postby gauchebag » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Kenny wrote:Dang, the catholic church burning it to raise interest for renovations is a pretty good conspiracy. Explains all the cool stuff surviving


think about it we haven't heard anything about this. surely they know who was up there or had been up there right?

not a lot of answers coming out of france and occam's razor

sneaky french

edit: https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/16/tech/con ... index.html

this angle is not even covered on the article about conspiracy theories...i wonder why that is hmm
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Postby Ted Pikul » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:23 pm

wait a minute, that;s just a rehash of the titanic conspiracy theory!!!
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Postby Kenny » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:54 pm

Image
#DeadheadsForNotreDame
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Postby a-10 warthog champion » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:59 pm

wendy wrote:as a rule i try not to believe in ghosts but i agree that the facts laid out here are irrefutable



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Postby Seamus » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:00 pm

it would be pretty cool to just keep ruins of it and donate some of that 600 million to something other than repairing a building tbh
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