Thread to Discuss The Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (#CHAZ)

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Postby rt1 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:00 pm

big zorb wrote:but abolish vs reform isn't hairsplitting; it is the issue. they mean fundamentally different things.

i suppose i didn't explicitly map this out but the reason i think that is particularly true in the united states is that united states is a militarized nation; we cannot be "unmilitarized", only "demilitarized." western european nations are unmilitarized. these are fundamentally different psychologies. someone in norway conceives of police, even special armed task forces, in a way that americans never will.

this isn't splitting hairs or semantics; we have to understand the foundations of our situation in order to solve it. this also suggests--at least to me--that ideas imported from states with completely different contexts for police, security, authority, etc., are not especially helpful, because the psychological foundations of those ideas are so profoundly different that they can't possibly be replicated here. it's like trying to build a house on a mountainside with plans from a house built on the plains.


I completely agree. I was going to use the metaphor of a house on a foundation of rotted wood. There's a different outcome from needing to tear it down to rebuild vs remodeling it. That is the issue. What needs to be done.
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Postby Bad Craziness » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:04 am

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Postby Down n dirty rufus » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:31 am

The killings are so odd to read about because the media talks about them like they are just some force of nature like the coronavirus. They don’t give any context or explanation about why they happened or who committed the acts.
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Postby fester » Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:45 am

watching the city throw all the tents and personal belongings into garbage trucks today was awful. the city had assured people that any personal belongings they gathered would be kept safe and returned. instead they went straight into the compactor.
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Postby polybius » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:40 am

i'm trying to figure out a less stupid way of saying this but i cant and it's late

with the news about CHAZ does anyone else get this weird "feeling" that fascism is winning out at the moment

the best way i can describe it is like a tug o war in which we had pretty consistent grounding for more than a month with protests, taking over the precinct, etc and now it slowly feels like exhaustion and fatigue is giving way to the other side gaining the advantage
  
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Postby polybius » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:40 am

it feels glib to put things in terms as if this were some game but i promise it's not meant to be, i just can't tell if i've become overwhelmed and exhausted with constant consumption of (primarily twitter) updates about what's happening overall and feeling like we're not getting anywhere, or rather, what people have fought so excruciatingly hard for is being systematically undone by the other side at a rate we cant compete with
  
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Postby the sequel » Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:41 am

I don't think it was ever really viewed as a legitimate threat to state power - they knew that if they waited long enough they could use whatever incidents arose to alienate moderates away from the movement and remove it without a significant backlash
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Postby Kenny » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:18 am

Sobieski wrote:What was it supposed to ‘do’?


What 'did' it do?

Tone:sincere

hopefully it inspires people to try again?
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Postby normal forest » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:13 am

Concessions from the city have been minor (misdemeanor arrests dismissed, $100m guaranteed to BIPOC organizations, some plants from the garden can stay, police supposedly have to show badges and can't use gas/grenades except that of course they can)

Potentially more consequential in the long run is that mayor Jenny Durkan seems to have tanked her respectability with both the police and the business community and involved activists are now much more connected and effectively networked
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Postby light rail coyote » Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:36 am

Down n dirty rufus wrote:The killings are so odd to read about because the media talks about them like they are just some force of nature like the coronavirus. They don’t give any context or explanation about why they happened or who committed the acts.


this is the thing that makes any speculation on this fairly pointless at the moment. unless you know people on the ground, there's been almost no actual information shared on what actually happened and even the few people i do know that are on the ground (portland and seattle activism scenes have a lot of overlap) don't even fully know what happened yet.

speculation is that the most recent one was a hate crime directed at black activists but no one has any real confirmation.
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