Pro Wrestling: the thread

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:58 pm

Oney's actual name is 'Chris Girard', which isn't a great pro wrestling name but how do you get 'Oney Lorcan' - those aren't even names. Those are just random assembelages of sounds.

The distance between how weird his name is, how weird his Twitter is and him being a black tights wearing dude who's major false finish for his match last night was a half crab and who's double teams with his tag partner were basically just two guys doing the same basic move at the same time is kinda weird.

Like he's solid as hell. I like him. But it's astonishing to me that he's doing reasonably well in the WWE system, even if just NXT and 205 Live.

by **Shotfrog** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:15 pm

I miss him. It’s just insane how many Beyond Wrestling guys are in NXT now.

by **Dear You** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:50 pm

oney lorcan is 100% the name of some weird npc orc in a jrpg

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:02 pm

Lee/Dijak kicking off NXT tonight

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:22 pm

One of my least favorite things about wrestling is that everyone always has to win with their move or a roll up/pinning combo and nothing else.

There was just something absolutely batshit in that Lee/Dijak match and it was a kickout and it's like ffs, just let crazy shit end the match sometimes. It's like how they kept having Rollins do that rad superplex/Falcon Arrow but it wasn't his finisher so it was always a kickout. Feels like he stopped doing it because it was just too much as a near fall, at least on a regular basis.

by **VHB** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:29 pm

buriedinspace wrote:One of my least favorite things about wrestling is that everyone always has to win with their move or a roll up/pinning combo and nothing else.

There was just something absolutely batshit in that Lee/Dijak match and it was a kickout and it's like ffs, just let crazy shit end the match sometimes. It's like how they kept having Rollins do that rad superplex/Falcon Arrow but it wasn't his finisher so it was always a kickout. Feels like he stopped doing it because it was just too much as a near fall, at least on a regular basis.

Bret Hart is the best of his era and one of the best of all time specifically because of how he consistently defied this (and his alternate finishes always made narrative sense in the context of the match itself, the feud, and the greater history of him/his opponent).

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:33 pm

VHB wrote:
buriedinspace wrote:One of my least favorite things about wrestling is that everyone always has to win with their move or a roll up/pinning combo and nothing else.

There was just something absolutely batshit in that Lee/Dijak match and it was a kickout and it's like ffs, just let crazy shit end the match sometimes. It's like how they kept having Rollins do that rad superplex/Falcon Arrow but it wasn't his finisher so it was always a kickout. Feels like he stopped doing it because it was just too much as a near fall, at least on a regular basis.

Bret Hart is the best of his era and one of the best of all time specifically because of how he consistently defied this (and his alternate finishes always made narrative sense in the context of the match itself, the feud, and the greater history of him/his opponent).

I mean, he lost to the Victory Roll counter to Owen (after winning the King of the Ring with a Victory Roll), blocked a sunset flip vs Bulldog, the run off the ropes with Austin and had the playing possum small package against Diesel, all of which are some of my all time favorite finishes. But they feel covered under 'roll up/pinning combo'

It's just like, in the age of crazy shit in NJPW, AEW and NXT esp, sometimes a Super Canadian Destroyer should end a match even if your finish isn't a Canadian Destroyer, you know? Or the kick out spot is useless.

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:43 pm

ZSJ is currently the best at defying this that I can think of. It's one of the reasons you can really sell him as such a great technical wrestler - he's dangerous to tap you out at in any crazy submission. He has some go-tos but he's adding new ones pretty frequently.

In WWE it's worse because your moveset is like a video game character - just all the same stuff, every match and it gets so patterned.

I've said it before but I get really bothered by the WWE pattern of 'guy hits his move early in the match, goes for it again later in the match and 100% of the time misses it, because he already hit it before in the match' - just don't do the spot or don't do it again. Like, to pick on Rollins again - if he hit the suicide dive earlier in the match and goes for it again 5 minutes later, the guy is gonna catch him.

It's not that there shouldn't be somethings that just make sense to do 99% of the time, but switch em up like 10 matches a year. I remember Dave talking about how in the G1 they do a countout here and there, a quick match and a draw most of the time to condition people to know these are possible finishes.

But no one wants to be the one who loses to the B move in a guy's arsenal and if you're beating a jobber, you might as well show off your finish. It's a little frustrating.

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:57 pm

Welp, Matt Riddle prob was reading the thread earlier

(but alt finishes are used a lot for guys too big to do your normal stuff to)

by **dreamshake** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:03 pm

I'm with you buriedinspace. I was watching cena's debut recently and the thing that stood out to me was how angle beat him: a chicken wing pin. loved it. totally want to see more moves leading to finishes and more styles of pins, less schoolboys and small packages. it makes every move mean more and it makes matches more exciting without going crazy with the work rate.

on a similar note, i'd love to see fewer submission holds end after crawling to a rope break and have people tap faster once someone applies an effective one.

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:49 pm

As might be expected, NXT next week is like a mini-Takeover.

Just announced:

Limited Commercial Interruptions
Cole vs Riddle for the NXT Title

Already announced:

Shayna vs Candice for the Women's Title
O'Reilly/Fish vs Street Profits for the Tag Titles

Teasing: KUSHIDA vs WALTER?

AEW obviously debuts that night too, so far on the docket:

Kenny and the Bucks vs Jericho & Mystery Partners
Riho vs Nyla Rose for the Inaugeral AEW Women's Title
Hangman Page vs PAC (announced today)
Cody vs Sammy Guavara
+MJF vs Brandon Cutler and Jon Moxley appears + SCU vs Jurassic Express

In both cases, there might not be a lot of airtime left for much more to be added. Esp AEW, I wonder how they even can fit 6 matches, 3 of which probably require some time in and get much of the other debut stuff done

by **buriedinspace** » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:56 pm

Then there's also the Raw 'season premiere' next week with Mysterio/Rollins for the Universal Title and Cedric vs AJ for the US title plus appearances by Hogan, Flair and Lesnar

And especially the Smackdown Fox Premiere with:

Kofi vs Lesnar for the WWE Title
KO vs Shane in a Ladder Match, Loser Leaves Town
Sasha/Bayley vs Becky/Charlotte

Plus appearances by: Austin, Undertaker, Hogan, Flair, Goldberg, Sting, Trish, Lita and Angle

It's... gonna be an interesting week in the rasslin' world, my friends.

by **hey look** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:09 am

Probably not

by **buriedinspace** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:50 am

I mean, half of those shows look good, the other half seen fine and all but Raw are really important and interesting bellwethers for where the brands and companies like and where they're going.

by **Shotfrog** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:05 am

John Morrison back with the E

by **Bartatua** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:21 am

I pretty much tuned out of wwe like 4 months ago and i swear owens was still feuding with shane back then

enraging that he's still stuck with that shit

by **Shotfrog** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:22 am

But KO filed a LAWSUIT! Boom!

by **buriedinspace** » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:12 pm

Bartatua wrote:I pretty much tuned out of wwe like 4 months ago and i swear owens was still feuding with shane back then

enraging that he's still stuck with that shit

It appears that Friday is the blow off.

But yes, it's been pretty frustrating, esp because KO has occasionally been made to look awful in the process.

by **Shotfrog** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:17 am

Going to New Japan tonight. The card is honestly not that exciting although I hadn’t known that Amazing Red was on the tour.

by **buriedinspace** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:20 am

Shotfrog wrote:Going to New Japan tonight. The card is honestly not that exciting although I hadn’t known that Amazing Red was on the tour.

For what it is, the card seems all right. I bet it'll be a fun show!

by **buriedinspace** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:23 am

Main event 6 man is pretty good by NJPW spot show standards:

Kazuchika Okada, Hiroshi Tanahashi & Kota Ibushi vs. SANADA, EVIL & Tetsuya Naito

by **Shotfrog** » Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:09 pm

Yeah it’s actually been crazy fun so far.

by **buriedinspace** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:16 am

Rush won the ROH title but also he and Dragon Lee got released from CMLL for various things, including working BOLA against company wishes.

CMLL owns both of their ringnames and will likely not allow for their use going forward. Rush is booked as El Toro Blanco for some of his independent dates apparently. No word on Dragon Lee, who also notably showed up unannounced for ROH last night. They're both booked for future ROH shows with there being a Dragon Lee/Shane Taylor tease.

Also notable: Matt Taven losing the title may have something to do with his upcoming free agency. I'd think he'd be WWE bound likeliest if he left but he's a guy who'd be a get for Impact.

One possibility is both Dragon Lee and Rush sign with NJPW, who given their relationship with CMLL might allow them to keep their names? (And would open the door for Rush as a co-leader of Los Ingobernables?) But also gotta imagine AEW and WWE will make some calls, with AEW seeming a good fit and allowing them to also pursue AAA bookings, where I imagine both would have high demand.

They might just decide to be independent more long term. I know Rush has a good relationship with MLW and others. I would guess that might still involve some AEW appearances, because they seem open to that, given Fenix and Pentagon.

by **buriedinspace** » Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:35 pm

by **buriedinspace** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:42 am

Definite buzz that WWE likely is getting The Rock for Smackdown this Friday.

If they hadn't already announced everyone under the sun else, I'd announce a special guest and hype it hard, if they can't confirm him and have probably Austin ready for the role as a backup. But he's already announced.

I was thinking about, if he is confirmed, an interesting way to play off the CM Punk rumors and help the rating would be to tease Hunter or Vince announcing a huge guest after running down everything else in Raw but The Fiend interrupts before the announcement fully gets made, then run those Twitter reacts they sometimes do and let speculation about Punk or The Rock into the mix.

by **Pris** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:31 am

Watching some 1995 WWF on the Network. It's the time I first got into wrestling as a kid.

Not a hot period, but Hall and Lawler are bright spots.

Razor was my favorite back then and watching now he still rules. "Lemme tell ya, McMaaang..."

Didn't like Lawler as a kid, but I can now fully apperciate his schtick.

by **buriedinspace** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:37 pm

Pris wrote:Watching some 1995 WWF on the Network. It's the time I first got into wrestling as a kid.

Not a hot period, but Hall and Lawler are bright spots.

Razor was my favorite back then and watching now he still rules. "Lemme tell ya, McMaaang..."

Didn't like Lawler as a kid, but I can now fully apperciate his schtick.

It's around when I did too. My start was more 94, with Bret/Owen in full swing but 95 is still a time I have fond memories of

by **buriedinspace** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:43 pm

Apparently Tanahashi said that playing air guitar with the RNR Express (as he did to end the show last night) was 'his dream' which may have either been bullshit or, possibly, the easiest explanation for why they got booked on the tour

by **Shotfrog** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:53 pm

Ricky Morton did a suicide dive.

by **NegativeCapability** » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:04 pm

Pro Wrestling: the thread

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