Pitchfork tranches

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
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Postby black mamba » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:37 pm

i agree with user buriedinspace
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Postby buriedinspace » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:43 pm

The National seems like a bizarre choice tbh. After giving their debut a 6.7 (which seems... about right, if generous?) they bookended their least recent to most recent albums with a 7.9 and an 8.0 and otherwise have given every full length a Best New Music. They were integral to their success and have never really turned against them. If they ever gave them a 0.0, especially at this point in their career, it actually could have a major impact, as it would be part of a narrative of them having become not just insignificant to this audience but hated by it, but they'd still do fine, in large part because Pitchfork approved them as a major critically acclaimed act. They are maybe a slightly more delicate version of the Sonic Youth scenario, in that I do think it could make a dent but also the people who love The National would still love them.
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Postby cool party » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:21 pm

black mamba, i appreciate the discussion as well

buriedinspace, i don't disagree with most of what you say. but i think rather than me confusing the role pitchfork has, you're confusing the scope of the original topic/question (which is easy to do because it's been a confusing discussion when we naturally end up talking about such a large timeframe). black mamba asked me to cite examples of my statement that there were bands who got bad reviews from p4k and went on to have success, so that's what i did in my last post. i did this because that supports my overall point that "if you don't cut down on your music output/touring after one/a few bad reviews, you might still have success in the future." but within making that argument, i never said that p4k didn't play a role later on in "approving" those bands. clearly, with p4k's position in the market, it would be impossible for them to not have some influence. i didn't say that i could cite bands who *never* got a good review from p4k and still had success. i concede that that would be harder. but i guess i was getting at whether p4k can be "pushed" to change course on something by persistent musicians, and i think they clearly can. you are right that they played a big role in making the national.

but just because ariel pink (whatever one thinks of him personally) might have later become "pitchfork approved" after years of getting panned, this doesn't disprove my overall point. they panned his first four albums over the span of four years, while meanwhile he developed a strong cult following who supported him and thought the pitchfork reviews were off course (as i suspect pitchfork themselves probably do now, as well). anecdotally, pre-Before Today, i remember his stuff being widely shared/discussed on this board, and talking about him with friends in real life and wondering why his pitchfork reviews were mediocre. i imagine that at the time he wasn't deriving anywhere near the income he does now from music. nevertheless, he just continued producing a ton of material until finally breaking through to more mainstream success. similarly with death cab, they got a mediocre review on an album that generated a huge following for them (and was later given an 8.4 in a reconsidered review). i agree with the point about radio play, but that's consistent with my argument--indie artists finding ways to achieve success in spite of reviews. i would point to the opportunities provided by the diffusion of music distribution as being an analogous asset to artists now to get buzz in spite of a bad review. i'm not saying "pitchfork has no influence," i'm just saying if whether through hard work or luck you can get other factors going in your favor, a bad review shouldn't discourage a musician who wants to keep producing from doing that.

obviously a 0.0 is different from a 6.0, but the latter in most cases is a good metric for "bad review" from p4k. however, i could even make the case that with the way the diffusion of music distribution worked out, travis could have manipulated that publicity into something positive down the road. either way, like black mamba, i'm not a big d-plan or travis fan anyway, so don't know much about him and am only interested in this discussion for the broader issues. maybe the key point here is what black mamba said earlier about p4k essentially being responsible for a lot of dplan's success in the first place.
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Postby buriedinspace » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:35 pm

Double post.
ratbags wrote:you're like a wistful naive idiot version of bill simmons

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Postby buriedinspace » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:35 pm

Mostly, I guess, I'm saying that a 6.0 or 6.7 is just not a disastrous review and that pans before you break out are less important than highly critical reviews of bigger deal releases. But yes, certainly the specificity of your examples makes some more sense. Though I don't even really read the National review as a pan - it begins by basically saying that they sound like a band the reviewer clearly likes and ends by saying that he sees potential for them to have their own voice soon and that once they do they'll have a lot of potential. It reads very even handed leaning toward positive to me and definitely nothing like the 0.0 we were discussing (or recent pans, like, for instance the 2nd most recent Joan of Arc record where they gave it a 3.8 and basically called it hateful, nasty trolling)
Last edited by buriedinspace on Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby cool party » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:38 pm

that's fair. i probably shouldn't have included the national alongside my other examples
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Postby neuartillery » Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:36 pm

In terms of bands that had > 0.0 reviews affect them, I know that The Beauty Pill lost momentum / had trouble booking shows after this 5.7 review: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/614-the-unsustainable-lifestyle/ . That was after the first EP (which is admittedly better) got a 9.0, although the review is no longer up.

After Chad Clark had cardiomyopathy and nearly died (a few times), it's hard to cite the review as the main hurdle, but it definitely killed that press cycle.
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Postby ripersnifle » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:54 pm

i'm just catching up but i just wanted to say that the least mid-00s p4k could've done for us was kill Stars
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Postby Grumby » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:03 pm

ripersnifle wrote:i'm just catching up but i just wanted to say that the least mid-00s p4k could've done for us was kill Stars


this is funny from an american perspective. i know they're like huge as shit in canada but i pretty much think of them like clap your hands say yeah or something
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Postby ripersnifle » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:05 pm

that's very heartening to hear lol
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Postby ripersnifle » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:11 pm

i really like this discussion that people are having.
it's interesting to think about the publication securing bands a certain core audience that will then weather future tranche and subtranche level reviews.
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Postby gold and glass » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:15 pm

it's worth remembering that The National had Clap Your Hands Say Yeah! set to open for them on their Alligator tour, then Pitchfork gave Alligator a strong but still dismissive score while blowing up Clap Your Hands Say Yeah! and The National experienced terrible walkout for their sets. I remember a lot of interviews from the time where The National described that experience as demoralizing, they didn't know if they should keep trying, etc.
Pitchfork didn't really give The National any attention until Boxer, or at least that was the feeling at the time.
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Postby gold and glass » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:17 pm

This board was also hugely pro-The National when Alligator came out and then a lot of the most vocal boarder fans (Totally, Iambic) did a 180 on them when Boxer came out
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Postby bongo » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:18 pm

the sad jocks?
yeaaaaaaaaaaaa american nostalgia love it suburban living civilized families this could be my life
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Postby gold and glass » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:21 pm

yeah the sad jocks
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Postby rich uncle skeleton » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:43 pm

Good/interesting discussion all around, and I think Childish Gambino is another example to consider. When Camp got the 1.6 pan from Ian Cohen (which imo is one of the most ruthless reviews they've ever published, https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/16074-camp/ ) I think it really diminished his potential among their demographic. Obviously I don't think the music he was making at that time was ever going to land with ppl that read p4k, but it really made a lot of that demographic categorically ignore Donald Glover's music, and I only think that's changed/changing because of his work on Atlanta and attempts to completely reinvent his musical identity. He was able to do that because:
1. He had a successful acting career/brand to build off of
2. He had a pretty core fanbase outside of p4k readers, which is even derided at the beginning of that Camp review as non-hip-hop fans
Whereas artists who don't have that and only have the acclaim from p4k as a source of support are much more defeated when they lose that support, and have to really consider whether or not to push on while their base slips out from underneath them
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Postby Eyeball Kid » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:58 pm

That Live Through This review does a good job of looking at Courtney Love's place in popular culture, but doesn't seem concerned about arguing that it's a legit-great album. Which, OK, but that perfect score is just sitting there.
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Postby Eugenics » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:19 pm

Hole was such a great band. I think 'Violet' may be a better song than anything Nirvana ever did, in hindsight.
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Postby buriedinspace » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:28 am

Not a big deal but today's Jenny Hval reviews entire premise seems to be that it isn't a concept record like her last one and... it seems like as much or more of one than the last record. It's called The Last Sleep and all four songs on the EP seem premised around sleep or trance like states and the songs overlap with one another lyrically and tonally.

Just seemed weird.
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Postby Zurich » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:36 am

kanye review was way harsher than a 7.1, really read more like a 3 or a low 4.
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Postby Link » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:11 am

Yeah
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Postby Grumby » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:16 am

deeper album is more deserving of a 7.1 (or .4)

fuckin' website
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Postby Grumby » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:50 pm

Grumby wrote:deeper album is more deserving of a 7.1 (or .4)

fuckin' website


i like this a lot (any of you fellow women/deerhunter heads should give it a spin)
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Postby domesticwhite » Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:51 pm

Grumby wrote:deeper album is more deserving of a 7.1 (or .4)

fuckin' website


my roommate just interviewed them a few weeks ago, that album is pretty solid
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Postby iambic » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:34 pm

gold and glass wrote:This board was also hugely pro-The National when Alligator came out and then a lot of the most vocal boarder fans (Totally, Iambic) did a 180 on them when Boxer came out

I still like The National; I still hate Boxer, their actual worst album except for the first two
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Postby neuartillery » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:39 pm

iambic wrote:
gold and glass wrote:This board was also hugely pro-The National when Alligator came out and then a lot of the most vocal boarder fans (Totally, Iambic) did a 180 on them when Boxer came out

I still like The National; I still hate Boxer, their actual worst album except for the first two


Ah, a National opinion on par with disliking Young Team.
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Postby gold and glass » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:44 pm

iambic wrote:
gold and glass wrote:This board was also hugely pro-The National when Alligator came out and then a lot of the most vocal boarder fans (Totally, Iambic) did a 180 on them when Boxer came out

I still like The National; I still hate Boxer, their actual worst album except for the first two


cool! I just remembered the extent to which it seemed all the board guys I looked up to as having good taste turned on them with that album and then Pitchfork gave it some insanely high score it didn't really seem to deserve at the time, seemingly to make up for blowing it with Alligator
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Postby gold and glass » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:45 pm

another artist completely panned by Pitchfork early in his career that went on to become successful:
https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/9580-mansions/

and the name of that man was Amen Dunes
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Postby ripersnifle » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:23 am

lol
steakspoon wrote:sorry if sounds corny fellas but i'll always remember where i was when i heard my first big star song..the internet.
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Postby ripersnifle » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:48 am

Grumby wrote:
Grumby wrote:deeper album is more deserving of a 7.1 (or .4)

fuckin' website


i like this a lot (any of you fellow women/deerhunter heads should give it a spin)
thanks for the tip. looks sick.
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