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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:26 pm

So is it confirmed that gamora is coming back for 3? Since she wasn't snapped a lot of people thought she got a "real" death in IW
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Postby kirito » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:27 pm

probably one of those things that won't be confirmed until after endgame
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Postby Drinky » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:28 pm

tawny frogmouth wrote:the thing about infinity war is, yeah he had to be the one to break mantis's control because they needed to lose to advance the plot. but i've rewatched it a few times now and i think the movie does a good job of setting up that particular fuckup to come from a place of genuine emotion. like yeah, it was stupid, but we in the audience know that because he himself said the same thing to drax on knowhere earlier in the movie. he's smart enough to stick to a plan, but his achilles heel is that new family he built for himself and thanos just took that away from him. and so he wails on thanos like he told drax not to. stupid? yes. but it's a kind of earned stupidity, for both the character and the movie


For sure, I didn’t mean to imply otherwise.
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:29 pm

tgk wrote:So is it confirmed that gamora is coming back for 3? Since she wasn't snapped a lot of people thought she got a "real" death in IW


Gamora's definitely gonna come back.

The stone that gets the most time devoted to it in Infinity War is the Soul Stone. It also has some of the more arcane powers among the cosmic gems. It’s significant that Thanos had to give up the one person he loved, Gamora, to obtain it — but did Gamora really die? That post-Snap scene of a young Gamora with Thanos is an important one. According to the Iowa City Press-Citizen, Infinity War director Joe Russo (who co-directed with his brother Anthony Russo) spoke to kids at Iowa City’s City High over opening weekend (he’s a University of Iowa alumnus) and revealed that the scene takes place within the Soul Stone:

“Yeah, it’s implied [that] it’s the Soul Stone. It’s all orange around, then he’s inside the Soul Stone with the amount of power that it took to snap his fingers – he has this out of body experience with Thanos. When he goes inside the Soul Stone he has this kind of conversation with the younger version of his Gamora.”


As we’ve written about in the past, the Soul Stone creates a pocket dimension that houses all of the souls that it has taken, which means that our heroes (and half the universe) are not dead, they’re just elsewhere. When asked specifically if Gamora is alive within the Soul Stone, Russo confirmed,

“She in fact is, yes. It was an attempt on our part – because we don’t like two dimensional roles or three dimensional villains every villain is a hero in their own story and as insane and psychotic and brutal and violent as Thanos is he’s a more complex villain if you go on a journey with him emotionally. He does care for things and it is complicated for him to execute his plan and it cost him something. He said at the end that it cost him everything and that it was the only thing he loved which was Gamora which is why we put him back with her at the end. I just want to reiterate with the audience that he does feel true emotion even though he is a monster.”
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:32 pm

so did anyone actually die in IW? I guess benicio del toro, is that it?
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Postby badhat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:33 pm

i think actually thawrting their plan by punching thanos is a bridge too far on the excusable earned stupidity tho.

its one think to not be able to make an unthinable personal sacrifice for the greater good (which is the main theme of the movie, obv) but the mechanics of that particular character failure were really infuriating.

nobody can blame you for not killing your GF to save the universe, but its hard to shake off being the guy whose lack of impulse control undermined a remarkably good plan to save the universe.
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Postby fester » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:33 pm

loki dead
------------
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Postby badhat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:33 pm

tgk wrote:so did anyone actually die in IW? I guess benicio del toro, is that it?



loki
heimdal
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Postby kirito » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:37 pm

badhat wrote:i think actually thawrting their plan by punching thanos is a bridge too far on the excusable earned stupidity tho.

its one think to not be able to make an unthinable personal sacrifice for the greater good (which is the main theme of the movie, obv) but the mechanics of that particular character failure were really infuriating.

nobody can blame you for not killing your GF to save the universe, but its hard to shake off being the guy whose lack of impulse control undermined a remarkably good plan to save the universe.

except the plan wasn't to save the universe, it was to stall thanos just long enough so he'd snap exactly when he did. quill was unknowingly playing his part by snapping thanos out of it at that exact time.
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Postby Self Destructive Zone » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:38 pm

See I think Infinity War purposely did that to expose him. The only reason he saves the day in GoG2 is because he becomes personally upset by the mom stuff. Prior to that he was happy to help Ego destroy the galaxy because it fed his ego. Even when Ego is telling him about the other children he killed, Starlord's face is overjoyed at being the special one. When he reacts just as personally in IW, he literally wrecks the universe. That and him being weak next to Thor, and condescending to Ironman despite Ironman matching his tech even though Stark is just a rich smart guy from earth and Starlord inherited in Space tech. Even in the original GoG he saves the day by being immortal and not knowing it. I just see the character being presented with a lot more self-awareness than you guys do. And I think Jack Burton is what they were going for.

And the real character growth in the Guardians so far has been Rocket, who has gradually opened up to the rest of the group over the course of the three movies. He went from making fun of Drax for his wife and child dying and being the most resistent to stopping Ronan, to his dick measuring contest with Starlord in the 2nd one followed by bonding with Yondu, to his quiet moment after speaking with Thor when he admitted to himself that he had a lot to lose.

Besides I find Drax really funny, and dig the universe Gunn has created. So I am happy to have more of that.
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Postby badhat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:39 pm

are you referring to strange’s future scanning or something else?

sorry if i’m forgetting something.
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Postby badhat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:42 pm

Self Destructive Zone wrote:t. I just see the character being presented with a lot more self-awareness than you guys do. And I think Jack Burton is what they were going for.

.


this was a good post

i will just clarify that i think the russos/IW were more self aware about quill than gunn was, which is the reason i’m ambivalent about the franchise.

i agree with/really like the point about the growth of the other characters
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:46 pm

Hard agree on Rocket's evolution being the most interesting part.

For all my issues with GotG2, I love the Rocket/Yondu stuff and get some serious feels at that final shot.
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Postby kirito » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:46 pm

badhat wrote:are you referring to strange’s future scanning or something else?

sorry if i’m forgetting something.

yeah. last thing he says before dusting was "it was the only way". he saw 40 million different variations on everything leading to the snap and beyond. the only way to "win" was to let it happen at that time and place with everyone perfectly in place to reverse it later. who knows if we'll ever get an explanation as to why a million different things couldn't have gone differently and why they couldn't have teleported thanos into the sun or something but that's the info we got in the movie.
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:48 pm

i hope we get more rocket/thor bonding in endgame, one of the best parts of IW
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Postby badhat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:50 pm

kirito wrote:
badhat wrote:are you referring to strange’s future scanning or something else?

sorry if i’m forgetting something.

yeah. last thing he says before dusting was "it was the only way". he saw 40 million different variations on everything leading to the snap and beyond. the only way to "win" was to let it happen at that time and place with everyone perfectly in place to reverse it later. who knows if we'll ever get an explanation as to why a million different things couldn't have gone differently and why they couldn't have teleported thanos into the sun or something but that's the info we got in the movie.



right but that wasnt “the plan

he didnt scan the timelines till after that so “the plan” they all agreed to was the one peter fucked up.
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:51 pm

Nope, Strange's scan happens right after they get to Titan and before they duke it out.
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Postby kirito » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:52 pm

yeah he did. if quill ruined the plan he would have hidden the time stone as a contingency instead of making the choice to give it to thanos in exchange for tony's life. he earlier said that if it came down to tony's life or the stone he wouldn't hesitate to let him die. tony had to survive for them to win.
Last edited by kirito on Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby badhat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:52 pm

oh wait shit. i need to rewatch i guess
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:54 pm

strange does the "scan" before thanos arrives, but the "it was the only way" line is after he gives thanos the gem, i think thats where the confusion is
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:55 pm

yeah for that to not just be kinda pointless, i'd have to think peter's fuckup doesn't mess the plan up.

the payoff or whatever of that from Strange will be way more worth it if it all was what he saw
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:56 pm

i always saw it as "the only way this works is if thanos gets all the gems" and less so "these exact things need to happen in this exact order for us to win"
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Postby badhat » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:59 pm

i took it as thanos has to win in the short term and tony has to live. but i messed up the sequence of events

and also sorta find the ethics of peter’s actions in that context sort of an annoying rabbit hole of ends/means/utilitarianism/freewill
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Postby reversemigraine » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:59 pm

tgk wrote:i always saw it as "the only way this works is if thanos gets all the gems" and less so "these exact things need to happen in this exact order for us to win"


I guess I see it the other way around, because given that there's only one path through millions and millions of possibilities, that means that there's a pretty strict set of events that will have to happen. Presumably half of those millions of possibilities involve situations in which Thanos gets all the gems.
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Postby kirito » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:01 pm

reversemigraine wrote:
tgk wrote:i always saw it as "the only way this works is if thanos gets all the gems" and less so "these exact things need to happen in this exact order for us to win"


I guess I see it the other way around, because given that there's only one path through millions and millions of possibilities, that means that there's a pretty strict set of events that will have to happen. Presumably half of those millions of possibilities involve situations in which Thanos gets all the gems.

yeah also they would have just given the stone to thanos as soon as he showed up if that was the case
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:04 pm

I always thought it was kinda time gem specific, as it can't be taken from strange he has to willingly give it up and all the millions of scenarios he went through was how he could use the time gem to stop thanos (at the expense of all the other heroes dying) and not finding any solutions, and thus giving up them gem and saving the others to win (kind of mirroring the end of the dr. strange movie)
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:05 pm

kirito wrote:
reversemigraine wrote:
tgk wrote:i always saw it as "the only way this works is if thanos gets all the gems" and less so "these exact things need to happen in this exact order for us to win"


I guess I see it the other way around, because given that there's only one path through millions and millions of possibilities, that means that there's a pretty strict set of events that will have to happen. Presumably half of those millions of possibilities involve situations in which Thanos gets all the gems.

yeah also they would have just given the stone to thanos as soon as he showed up if that was the case


pretty sure tony and chris pratt weren't gonna go along with that plan
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:07 pm

obviously i could be wrong though considering the plot of endgame appears to be

going back to specific moments through the past 10 years of the MCU to save the day, I could totally see them going back to the titan fight and having it play out exactly how they need it toToggle Spoiler
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:08 pm

yeah i think they'll go back and cut off Starlord's handsToggle Spoiler
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Postby tgk » Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:10 pm

they're gonna secretly replace the gauntlets infinity stones with jelly beans
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