fuck guns

Let's talk Aguachile Alley

Postby bro tones » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:55 am

Catullus wrote:Just popping in again to say that most of these shooters have no identifiable mental illness other than hatred/extremism (anger is not a mental illness) and those with mental illness are much more likely to 1) be victims of crime rather than perpetrators and 2) use guns on themselves rather than anyone else. Framing the answer to gun violence against others is better mental health furthers stigma. We need better mental health but we need to not frame it after every mass shooting.

thank you for this post cat
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Postby Buzz Fledderjohn » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:57 am

personally very excited for a week of tucker, hannity, ingraham et al attacking the democrats and media for linking these shootings to trump
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Postby goofjan » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:01 am

take all the guns away.
plz if u get a chanse put some flowrs on algernons grave kthxbye
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Postby Shalabi » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:29 am

Catullus wrote:Just popping in again to say that most of these shooters have no identifiable mental illness other than hatred/extremism (anger is not a mental illness) and those with mental illness are much more likely to 1) be victims of crime rather than perpetrators and 2) use guns on themselves rather than anyone else. Framing the answer to gun violence against others is better mental health furthers stigma. We need better mental health but we need to not frame it after every mass shooting.


fuck Bernie

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Postby Durham » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:32 am

Image
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Postby super gas » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:35 am

whenever people talk about a 'good guy with a gun' saving the day i think about the shooting that took place at empire state building a few years ago where trained police officers shot 9 bystanders by accident.
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Postby Shalabi » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:36 am

if congress targets the gamers, won't they rise up?
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Postby dr. badvibes » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:44 am

Catullus wrote:Just popping in again to say that most of these shooters have no identifiable mental illness other than hatred/extremism (anger is not a mental illness)

i don't understand this, and if you or anyone else was willing to explain more i would be in their debt

anger isn't a mental illness, but there are millions of angry, racist extremists who restrict their violence to verbal/online abuse or voting for the party they know shares their angry racism. those individuals who are willing to convert their anger into the action of executing as many strangers as possible... why isn't that mental illness? to me it seems like there is a massive gulf between fantasizing (or even desiring others to action) physical violence vs. acting on that impulse
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Postby screaming emphysema » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:45 am

I guess flags are going to at half mast forever now because this shit will just keep happening

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Postby easy » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:49 am

at least we’ve got the flags in order
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Postby Shotfrog » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:49 am

That Demon Life wrote:
Feech La Manna wrote:

incredible


If he blames Call of Duty, he's blaming the troops imo

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-01-shooters-how-video-games-fund-arms-manufacturers
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Postby John Dark » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:11 pm

super gas wrote:whenever people talk about a 'good guy with a gun' saving the day i think about the shooting that took place at empire state building a few years ago where trained police officers shot 9 bystanders by accident.

Sometimes they shoot each other too.
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Postby super gas » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:11 pm

the right is going with the dayton shooter being a satanist.

apparently he also shot his sister and her boyfriend before the rampage.
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Postby chimp » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:15 pm

dr. badvibes wrote:
Catullus wrote:Just popping in again to say that most of these shooters have no identifiable mental illness other than hatred/extremism (anger is not a mental illness)

i don't understand this, and if you or anyone else was willing to explain more i would be in their debt

anger isn't a mental illness, but there are millions of angry, racist extremists who restrict their violence to verbal/online abuse or voting for the party they know shares their angry racism. those individuals who are willing to convert their anger into the action of executing as many strangers as possible... why isn't that mental illness? to me it seems like there is a massive gulf between fantasizing (or even desiring others to action) physical violence vs. acting on that impulse


I think the term "mental illness" just doesn't really mean that much in these conversations. Like which one? Schizophrenia, mood disorders, personality disorders? I don't think many of these people have formal diagnoses of psychiatric problems and failing that the term "mental illness" can become just another way of saying "this person's actions are incomprehensible"
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Postby John plainman 4 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:26 pm

I agree, it's a useless phrase
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Postby draw » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:29 pm

Less useless than the fantasy that meaningful gun control in the US will happen in the near-term rather than on a generational timeline
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Postby super gas » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:33 pm



unclear to me if the sister is one of the 9 dead.
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Postby John plainman 4 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:36 pm

draw wrote:Less useless than the fantasy that meaningful gun control in the US will happen in the near-term rather than on a generational timeline


red car? good point!
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Postby draw » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:37 pm

thanks
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Postby Honk For Dracula » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:48 pm

Dayton shooter killed his sister in the attack.

think I'm gonna log off this cycle
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Postby Slamwich Artist » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:50 pm

chimp wrote:
dr. badvibes wrote:
Catullus wrote:Just popping in again to say that most of these shooters have no identifiable mental illness other than hatred/extremism (anger is not a mental illness)

i don't understand this, and if you or anyone else was willing to explain more i would be in their debt

anger isn't a mental illness, but there are millions of angry, racist extremists who restrict their violence to verbal/online abuse or voting for the party they know shares their angry racism. those individuals who are willing to convert their anger into the action of executing as many strangers as possible... why isn't that mental illness? to me it seems like there is a massive gulf between fantasizing (or even desiring others to action) physical violence vs. acting on that impulse


I think the term "mental illness" just doesn't really mean that much in these conversations. Like which one? Schizophrenia, mood disorders, personality disorders? I don't think many of these people have formal diagnoses of psychiatric problems and failing that the term "mental illness" can become just another way of saying "this person's actions are incomprehensible"

There are obviously multiple causes at work here, among which racism and gun access are the most important, but it doesn't really seem outlandish to say that better access to therapy and societal understanding of mental health more broadly would help prevent these kinds of incidents.
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Postby John plainman 4 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:53 pm

that's a reactive response, not proactive. you can't force someone consuming radical white nationalist content to go to therapy
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Postby whatabout tim » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:02 pm

Invoking mental health in these situations is such a waste. It’s a misguided scapegoat that will prevent any meaningful change.
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Postby banquo » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:06 pm

when people say "mental illness" they write this sort of thing off as not even bad apples, but more of that normal people would never do this. And then return to Cat's post that nearly all of these are NOT caused by people with diagnosable mental illness.

so yeah it's not outlandish to think better access to mental health treatment could help on a very small scale, but it's like saying if we had better access to mental health treatments then we'd have fewer traffic accidents-- except in a world where a lot of people believe that only mental health patients are causing all of the traffic accidents
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Postby draw » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:08 pm

would you also say suicide is not necessarily a mental health issue? if so then we're probably just arguing semantics at this point
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Postby John plainman 4 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:14 pm

draw wrote:would you also say suicide is not necessarily a mental health issue? if so then we're probably just arguing semantics at this point


yes, for the same reasons chimp wrote about above.
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Postby DasLofGang » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:16 pm

being surrounded by half a country's worth of people who approve of these things in favor of having to give up their baby toys can be pretty rough on a person's Mental Health
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Postby banquo » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:17 pm

if we're saying that any form of physical harm against oneself or another is a mental health issue to be solved with better mental health treatment, then maybe there's some truth to that

if we're saying that these american gun rampages should be addressed by the nearest pyschiatrist preemptively then it's a very different thing
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Postby whatabout tim » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:23 pm

If anyone is arguing banquo’s first point why are we the only nation with daily mass shootings? Every one has nationalism and access to the racist sounding board of the internet. Focusing on mental health in this instance is like focusing on mental health to lower car accident rates as mentioned above.
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Postby whatabout tim » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:36 pm

Imagine if cops treated gun owners like they treat black people. At least the former are fundamentally dangerous.
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