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Postby black mamba » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:00 pm

dr. badvibes wrote:
Catullus wrote:Just popping in again to say that most of these shooters have no identifiable mental illness other than hatred/extremism (anger is not a mental illness)

i don't understand this, and if you or anyone else was willing to explain more i would be in their debt

anger isn't a mental illness, but there are millions of angry, racist extremists who restrict their violence to verbal/online abuse or voting for the party they know shares their angry racism. those individuals who are willing to convert their anger into the action of executing as many strangers as possible... why isn't that mental illness? to me it seems like there is a massive gulf between fantasizing (or even desiring others to action) physical violence vs. acting on that impulse


their actions are the logical endpoint of an ideology, in this case the idea of 'white genocide'
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Postby screaming emphysema » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:00 pm

Cool guy alert!



Pretty sure we can send this guy straight into the sun
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Postby Hugh » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:01 pm

jack wrote:wow



fuck this asshole
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Postby Paul » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:02 pm

Jesus fucking christ, Neil
This is my Instagram

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Postby super gas » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:05 pm

doctors kill 500 by mistake every 48 hours? yikes
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Postby Kenny » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:07 pm

history of hate crimes, start SAVIN' if you want to do more buddy lol
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Postby Hugh » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:10 pm



lol cod out here rocking the vote
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Postby Lowercase Tea » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:34 pm

black mamba wrote:
dr. badvibes wrote:
Catullus wrote:Just popping in again to say that most of these shooters have no identifiable mental illness other than hatred/extremism (anger is not a mental illness)

i don't understand this, and if you or anyone else was willing to explain more i would be in their debt

anger isn't a mental illness, but there are millions of angry, racist extremists who restrict their violence to verbal/online abuse or voting for the party they know shares their angry racism. those individuals who are willing to convert their anger into the action of executing as many strangers as possible... why isn't that mental illness? to me it seems like there is a massive gulf between fantasizing (or even desiring others to action) physical violence vs. acting on that impulse


their actions are the logical endpoint of an ideology, in this case the idea of 'white genocide'


To address the original question part of this is there is a lot of push and pull around the idea of what makes it into the DSM-V and what doesn't. For a long time social workers had pushed psychiatrists to recognize racism as a mental illness as that it does cause "clinical distress" and usually does impact a "client's functioning" but the DSM guidance committee has refused on the grounds of trying not to be political. On the other side of that coin is a few people trying to get Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome into the DSM-V to encapsulate the other diagnoses usually used for black children that carry stigma (Conduct Disorder, etc).

It breaks down to how people thing mental illness is viewed and how people respond to it. I've worked with a lot of kids as their first therapist and depending on the clinical supervisor sometimes people argue I should be very clear with them about their right to confidentiality and they under no means have to share with their teacher what they talked to me about, while others argue that I'm ingraining stigma into them by doing that.

Another example is Gender Dysmorphia being the DSM. For the most part most clinicians hate it and there has been a movement to get it removed, but on the other hand pragmatists point out that if it's removed that means a lot of key surgeries would then not be covered by insurance without an official diagnosis.

Of course all of this is kind of irrelevant to the matter at hand because frankly due to the horrible way insurance billing is handled for therapy, many therapists won't take insurance so those people usually don't get specific diagnoses and I suspect a lot of these terrorists would have the family means for a private therapist.
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Postby jack » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:37 pm

screaming emphysema wrote:Cool guy alert!



Pretty sure we can send this guy straight into the sun


might as well be walking on it

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Postby DasLofGang » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:39 pm

screaming emphysema wrote:Pretty sure we can send this guy straight into the sun


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Well actually, screaming emphysema, even protected by high-temperature silica tiles like those used to shield the Space Shuttle from extreme heat on re-entry, this guy would burn up approximately 1.3 million miles before reaching the sun's corona. So, you could send me "towards," but not actually "into" our nearest star.
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Postby denvermax » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:40 pm

I agree with Neil here
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Postby sniplets » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:41 pm

So, doctors are the real terrorists?
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Postby badhat » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:44 pm

re “mental illness”

its probably worth us taking environmental and cultural and biological factors into account when we think about violence, but starting with trying to pathologize mass ideologically motivated terrorists rather than... for example... considering the role of lead paint and leaded gasoline in urban violence seems pretty flatly disingenuous to me. like yeah lets be more sophisticated and less binary good/evil/guilty/not guilty in how we think about/try to curb violence but not just when its white kids from good families.
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Postby Catullus » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:49 pm

draw wrote:would you also say suicide is not necessarily a mental health issue? if so then we're probably just arguing semantics at this point


Suicide is not the same as mass shootings. Betted mental health will very likely improve suicide rates but it must be in conjunction with gun regulation and also not tied directly to mass shootings. Because all that is done is hand waving that turns people with MI into bogeymen. Radicalized behavior isn’t a mental illness. There is no entry in the DSM V for ‘Hates brown people’. By labeling all of these people as ‘crazy’ you 1) further stigmatize people like myself who have serious mental health issues and face discrimination and 2) fail to get at the actual root cause which is radicalization and access to highly effective deadly weapons.
opi wrote:like i don't think it's possible for catullus to be duplicitous, whereas pretty much every other poster at the time struck me as having one foot in shinra
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Postby Happy and Healthy! » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:49 pm

"N thousand people die in car accidents every year, so ..." is the most brain dead response that survives basically no logical scrutiny yet we have to see that shit literally every time
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Postby Happy and Healthy! » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:50 pm

I'm fine talking about mental illness but not in lieu of talking about guns. Using it as a distraction to ignore gun shit is what's wrong with the public discussion
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Postby Stuntman » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:51 pm

denvermax wrote:I agree with Neil here


Yeah he’d have a real point if the 500 deaths on account of medical errors were due to the negligence of one doctor who also happened to hate all of their patients.
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Postby Catullus » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:53 pm

I’d also like to add that many more people now have access to mental health after the ACA and yet the number of mass shootings have increased. You know what else has
Increased proportionally? The number of guns owned.
opi wrote:like i don't think it's possible for catullus to be duplicitous, whereas pretty much every other poster at the time struck me as having one foot in shinra
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Postby Happy and Healthy! » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:54 pm

Repeal the 2nd amendment needs some actual juice
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Postby Happy and Healthy! » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:54 pm

Drop The Deuce?
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Postby Buzz Fledderjohn » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:56 pm

some good news:

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Postby Lowercase Tea » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:58 pm

Something that should also be noted here is that this is disproportionately caused by cis hetero white men, the group least likely to go to therapy even if it was free.
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Postby whatabout tim » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:00 pm

Fuck yea, hope Mitch never heals
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Postby Catullus » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:04 pm

So increasing access to therapy wouldn’t fix the issue even if mass shooters had what could be identifiable mental health issues?
opi wrote:like i don't think it's possible for catullus to be duplicitous, whereas pretty much every other poster at the time struck me as having one foot in shinra
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Postby sniplets » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:08 pm

It seems like they're going the video game route instead of mental health this time.

I just dont know if it's because the topic hasn't gained traction after the last few horiffic events or if they just don't want to make any inroads in actually improving the mental healthcare system.

It's gotta be the most cynical and bad faith reason, right?
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Postby odilon redon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:08 pm

screaming emphysema wrote:Cool guy alert!



Pretty sure we can send this guy straight into the sun


what the fuck does he think he’s accomplishing with this tweet? “well actually this is a totally reasonable and unavoidable thing to occur ”
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Postby darger » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:12 pm

Buzz Fledderjohn wrote:some good news:



he did this to create a distraction.

classic moscow mitch.
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Postby Marx & Engels » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:14 pm

Maybe Neil's just trying to helpfully expand the conversation to focus on America's also-incredibly-high rate of gun-related suicides
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Postby Lowercase Tea » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:15 pm

Catullus wrote:So increasing access to therapy wouldn’t fix the issue even if mass shooters had what could be identifiable mental health issues?


It's really tricky because part of the way the field is set up is to do risk assessments for homicidal ideation. And ostensibly it is supposed to work and between that and Tarasoff (the court ruling that requires that therapists are required to share info with local police if a homicide is planned) to catch these things, but generally those risk assessments have a final step with the police so yeah I doubt any mental health stuff alone would have an appreciable impact. That said though, people do talk about suicide or homicide in very real terms, with a specified plan, and access to means and that is the moment that a risk assessment should be done.

But yeah I suspect going the video game route is in some regard a way to avoid realizing that Medicare for All would have the most appreciable difference in increasing access to mental health.
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Postby Stuntman » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:16 pm

He’s DESTROYING mourners with FACTS and LOGIC.
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