fuck guns

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Postby MikeS » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:18 am

looks like there's an active shooter at a bar in Dayton, Ohio.
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Postby furrowed brow » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:22 am

big zorb wrote:I think it's because people committing sexual assault don't write manifestos about it usually so it *seems* like individual cases rather than this broad societal plague


Yeah, I guess that just goes to show how socially ingrained rape culture is; so pervasive that we can't even see it. Apologies for painting with broad strokes, but I'd argue that the history of American cinema is functionally a manifesto about how it okay to sexually assault women (under certain conditions).
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Postby furrowed brow » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:23 am

Anyway, obviously I'm not trying to belittle anyone's fear of this stuff, I hope I don't come across that way.
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Postby bunejug » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:26 am

I would definitely feel less safe in a queer space if I knew a straight employee had a gun.
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Postby naturemorte » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:29 am

reports of eight dead in dayton, to be confirmed. ar-15 style weapon.
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Postby dusky » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:07 am

since I’ve left the states 5 days ago there’s been 3 mass shootings. really wish I didn’t ever have to go back to that stupid shithole.
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Postby Bob511 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 2:56 am

furrowed brow wrote:I'd argue that the history of American cinema is functionally a manifesto about how it okay to sexually assault women (under certain conditions).

Also, obviously, a century-long love letter to the effectiveness of the gun for individual protection. Love that feeling of turning into Jack Thompson in my thirties. :|

I know the post got deleted, but I guess I wanted to concede that, yeah, for whatever it's worth, communally armed protection in the face of group-directed violence is something I have a harder time with. I have no idea if armed Greenwood residents mitigated the numbers killed in the Tulsa pogrom, or how to fairly unpack the Los Angeles Korean-American experience in 1992. Obviously armed policing by unrepresentative populations is a disaster both practically and morally, and maybe it is the unrepresentative, not the armed, part that makes it especially so.

But I don't know either that circumstances like those are really comparable to the kind of threat posed by modern mass shootings, or the way an individual carrying would have to keep their firearm so immediately accessible and be willing to escalate on a dime, with all the documented collateral damage that results from that, in order to just respond at all to one, let alone respond successfully. I get that both general situations are ultimately about reclaiming agency by matching force to oppression, but the one seems a much easier call on the merits.
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Postby Kenny » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:57 am

big zorb wrote:
this nation is doomed beyond the point of being able to make it functionally harder to get guns

Yeah anybody hoping for legislative change is fooling themselves
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Postby Kenny » Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:27 am

Thought better of this post
Last edited by Kenny on Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby identikit » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:01 am

Big Zorb, I feel for you. I can't imagine getting up and going to my place of work, all the while receiving threats and worrying how long it might be until a colleague will be faced with a gun. I would probably quit because I can't handle anxiety.

What you wrote reminds me of discussions we are having at home for the past couple of months. Mister identikit was advocating to own a gun, then went further that I should maybe have one at my place of work. The why he is so worried is irrelevant here (hint, Chicago South Side), but it hasn't been easy, simply because I would leave the States before I own or carry a gun.

But you work at a musuem, right? Wouldn't it be an option to try and raise funds for metal detectors and bag scanning procedures like other museums have? While that isn't a bulletproof solution (man, bad choice of words), I think it would help to some extent, plus make everyone feel more safe, employees and visitors alike.

Kenny wrote:Yeah anybody hoping for legislative change is fooling themselves

What do you propose instead of "fooling ourselves"? Roll over and give up, sit back and just go "oh well, here comes doom"? That's just silly and lazy at the same time. This country had laws where castration was punishment for homosexual activity. And not that long ago, racial segregation. Voting rights for women are only 100 years old. Will we see a legislative change in the next year? Extremely unlikely. But that doesn't mean we can't get there eventually.
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Postby identikit » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:16 am

Also I'm thankful this thread exists, as surreal as that sounds.
I went to bed while they were still counting fatalaties in El Paso, and got up to radio news about Dayton, Ohio. The process of getting Americanised works on me, I see headlines about shootings and simply move on. We don't talk about it at home or at work really, beyond a cynical "oh yea, read that, thoughts and prayers".
Occassionally the sadness and doom and helplessness still gets to me, though. This morning it does.
I listen to the radio in the kitchen while identi mini II runs out in the garden, looking what the bug house caught (it has food in it to attract bugs...), which he will present to me in a few minutes and plead that whatever creature should move into the house. Meanwhile I'm sitting here, thinking "fucking hell, I don't want to imagine what your life will look like when you are my age. Will you be dead? Armed to your teeth?"
And then I want to cry. Hey thread.
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Postby kid8 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:26 am

I don't want this to happen anymore.
Oh, I'm a failure, because i haven't got a brain.
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Postby mcwop23 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:38 am

at least the el paso shooting will be nothing more than a blip

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Postby Debbie » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:45 am

Insane
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Postby Debbie » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:45 am

I don't mean that in some insensitive way that's just mind blowing
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Postby Catullus » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:01 am

For what it’s worth, women who have a gun in the home or carry one are more likely to be murdered with said weapon than ever use it to protect themselves in case of rape. Also, way more rapes are by serial offenders than anyone previously thought now that police are being forced to test kits in certain areas. So it’s not so ‘one off’ either.

And as I have mentioned before, as someone who is now being encouraged to being a gun to my workplace, which as a school is filled with children, I really can’t think of a more counterproductive approach to school shootings and am actively terrified of some of my colleagues packing fucking heat.
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Postby Debbie » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:09 am

Yeah that's just the worst advice possible
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Postby Shotfrog » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:18 am

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Postby Debbie » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:26 am

I'd never seen that one
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Postby whatabout tim » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:39 am

White supremacy and racism are not “mental illnesses.”
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Postby Debbie » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:43 am

Just some lone wolves nothin we can do truly tragic
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Postby jewels » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:53 am

My office is loaded with guns and police and I mostly feel less safe, though occasionally have a false sense of security.
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Postby mcwop23 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:58 am

Denise wrote:I'd never seen that one


yeah same
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Postby Robo-Chachi » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:59 am

I suppose it is likely the El Paso shooting triggered the Dayton shooting?
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Postby mcwop23 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:00 am

Robo-Chachi wrote:I suppose it is likely the El Paso shooting triggered the Dayton shooting?


literally
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Postby Gutslab » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:03 am

dusky wrote:since I’ve left the states 5 days ago there’s been 3 mass shootings. really wish I didn’t ever have to go back to that stupid shithole.


I was out the US for a few weeks and felt the stress being lifted, the stress related to being shot for a no reason. I didn't realize how large that was, even at subliminal levels.
I'm desensitized to gun news like many others, but when away I didn't receive any stimuli to it. Then it hits you like a brick wall when you're back home, and the first thing you see on the news is all the reports about the recent shootings in the last day, and that's just where you live. I can relate to the feelings of hopelessness in this epidemic, especially when you compare to what other countries have been able to do to curb the issue. NZ has done more gun reform legislation in the time since their mass shooting, than the US has done for many years. The country needs to treat gun control as a nonpartisan problem and the govt leaders need to stop being cowards and take action, and if they cant, they should be voted out. The NRA should be viewed as a terrorist organization, they actively enable gun violence and deter attempts at legislation.
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Postby Kenny » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:24 am

identikit wrote:
Kenny wrote:Yeah anybody hoping for legislative change is fooling themselves

What do you propose instead of "fooling ourselves"? Roll over and give up, sit back and just go "oh well, here comes doom"? That's just silly and lazy at the same time. This country had laws where castration was punishment for homosexual activity. And not that long ago, racial segregation. Voting rights for women are only 100 years old. Will we see a legislative change in the next year? Extremely unlikely. But that doesn't mean we can't get there eventually.

I'm not really suggesting there is anything we could do about it, though I'm not suggesting we shouldn't try
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Postby zamboni » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:25 am

i felt a weird sense of pride in being a person actively interested in current events, news, the world, blag

but today is like, i can't read about this one. i don't know
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Postby mcwop23 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:27 am

which one
wendy wrote:
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Postby joe » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:30 am

We're all on the same side friends. We can all empathize with folks' fears, but also reinforce that guns don't actually help with self defense for anyone, even the marginalized fighting back.
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