ongoing ecological collapse thread

Humans in space suits make monkeys nervous

Postby Annie May » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:21 am

Umm okay but what if i told you it's actually the freakin boomers fault
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Postby light rail coyote » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:31 am

annie may u rascal!
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Postby light rail coyote » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:31 am

honestly i wrote that post while on the toilet so who knows if it's even coherent
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Postby DasLofGang » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:40 am

great toilet post, lrc

I think the boomer blame comes less from looking at policy makers and more from interactions with older people in their personal lives who unless they are actual tie-die type Hippies seem more inclined to dismiss the things that are *already happening now* as some vague bullshit cyclical weather thing that they've already lived through somehow, if global warming is real how come it snows in February, etc etc etc

maybe they're just message fatigued from hearing about this regularly since the 70s and things haven't gotten bad enough fast enough to "look like" a real crisis to them yet

or I'm just drawing covid parallels again
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Postby light rail coyote » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:42 am

yeah, exactly. seeing your boomer neighbor go on some rant about how climate change is a conspiracy from the globalists who are trying to take away your freedoms is frustrating and you can and should mock them, but the reality is that those people have no real power and aren't actually in the top 10 reasons why greece is on fire and why the pacific northwest is gonna hit 105 again this week.

i also think, at a fundamental level, that doing lazy pop political psychology is easier than examining power relations so people just kind of hide in those weeds rather than branching out to anything more systemic.
Last edited by light rail coyote on Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby tgk » Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:47 am

we can't even convince people to take a free vaccine to save their lives
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Postby palmer eldritch » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:35 am

light rail coyote wrote:yeah, exactly. seeing your boomer neighbor go on some rant about how climate change is a conspiracy from the globalists who are trying to take away your freedoms is frustrating and you can and should mock them, but the reality is that those people have no real power and aren't actually in the top 10 reasons why greece is on fire and why the pacific northwest is gonna hit 105 again this week.

i also think, at a fundamental level, that doing lazy pop political psychology is easier than examining power relations so people just kind of hide in those weeds rather than branching out to anything more systemic.


well let's hear the top 10 reasons why greece is on fire and why the pacific northwest is gonna hit 105 again this week
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Postby light rail coyote » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:46 am

1.) that post
2.) palmer's other posts in this thread
3.) the marvel cinematic universe
4.) palmer's posts in the POTUS thread
5.) my coworker who just stole an apple sauce from the donation drawer
6.) palmer's posts in the COVID thread
7.) bart simpsons
8.) joey's world tour's endless reliance on the automobile for his food reviews
9.) marjorie taylor green
10.) the pro-cuomo reply guys that feech keeps posting
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Postby palmer eldritch » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:48 am

I disagree, I think your coworker who stole an apple sauce is helping
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Postby light rail coyote » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:48 am

i guess he might've otherwise driven to the store
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Postby farmer » Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:58 am

why are we talking about consumer level applesauce theft when 70% of the applesauce is stolen by the largest 100 companies
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Postby tgk » Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:02 pm

It's from putting brown bottles in the green bottle recycling bin
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Postby mcwop23 » Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:41 am

wendy wrote:
colin meloy doesn't need to die
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Postby Grendel » Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:46 am

Archimedes is boiling over in his grave.
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Postby cartola » Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:49 am

heat index is 105 here today,feels like HELL
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Postby hbb » Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:55 am

Grendel wrote:Archimedes is boiling over in his grave.


If he thought cremation was hot, this is like pyre squared!
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Postby dusky » Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:02 pm

Grendel wrote:Archimedes is boiling over in his bathtub.
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Postby tgk » Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:38 pm

so basically everyone has been moving to the worst places for climate change. should go great

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Postby light rail coyote » Thu Aug 12, 2021 12:44 pm

supposed to get up to 106 today

not nearly as much panic as there was last time but still not fun
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Postby Barthes Starr » Thu Aug 12, 2021 1:01 pm

light rail coyote wrote:supposed to get up to 106 today

not nearly as much panic as there was last time but still not fun


boil me once.....
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Postby came to wreck » Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:02 pm

tgk wrote:so basically everyone has been moving to the worst places for climate change. should go great

Image


florida and texas?

north dakota also boomin tho!
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Postby bamboozle_guzzler » Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:07 pm

DasLofGang wrote:great toilet post, lrc


oh uh don't feel the need to respond to my dumb posts unless you really have nothing better to do while taking a dump lol

light rail coyote wrote:i never said anything about convincing boomers. i think that your facebook uncle who thinks that climate change is a chinese conspiracy is irrelevant. he has no political power and even if you convinced him, it wouldn't make a difference. all of the boomers in the world suddenly becoming convinced that climate change is real wouldn't be a sufficient condition for governments and businesses to take the meaningful, necessary action because it's never actually been an issue of belief vs. disbelief or an issue of demand vs. lack of demand (lots of people around the world have demanded climate justice. the US's response has usually been to fund right wing death squads to crush them for doing so). some of the most compelling and conclusive climate research of the 1980s was the research produced by BP that they then buried because they realized the implications effectively damned their business model. lots of GOP electeds who are current denialists were not denialists in the 1990s and shifted their positions once lobbyists and chambers of commerce started putting increasing pressure on them and primarying "moderates" towards the end of the decade and into the bush administration. barack obama said that climate change was important but expanded US oil production. political will isn't about belief/disbelief or a lack of public interest, it's about power.


as for people in actual positions of power, diane feinstein doesn't belittle the GND because she's old, she belittles it because her career relies on a constituency of big business interests that understand that something like the GND would make their companies less profitable, put them under stricter forms of government regulation, or other government interventions that that business groups just fundamentally oppose on principle. as such, she has to undermine legitimacy for transformative climate regulations because, if she doesn't, those interests will find another elected official to back and do their best to knock her out of office. her age has little to do with it. there are many young electeds that don't take climate change seriously.


When I use "boomers" as an umbrella term that includes not just facebook uncles, but the current political ruling class and the types of industry forces exerting pressure on them you describe. The nature of these relationships might be the same with millennials & zoomers at the helm, but I don't expect policy outcomes in response to the climate will be, as it increasingly becomes an apparent existential threat that must be dealt with and perhaps there's some profit to be had in addressing it.

It's interesting how the GOP were largely responsible for the establishment of our national forests, and maybe this flip-flopping you point out invalidates my expectations on how younger generations will act.

the thing about locally managed cooperatives is that there will never be an incentive for capital to make a shift in that direction because that would mean that the owners of those firms that were either dismantled or turned into cooperatives would lost their political, social and economic power. there will never be an incentive large enough for those in positions of economic power where they'd give up that power voluntarily. amazon won't even allow a union even though unions can be relatively easy for management to control if they play their cards right. why would amazon allow its contractors or shipping facilities to become cooperatives when they could just donate some gas masks to communities hit by wildfires or to some climate mitigation charity and get all kinds of positive press write ups without changing anything substantive?


any shift towards an actual, sustainable system that can put us on the path to mitigating the worst or even reversing some of the damage is going to require a massive conflict between classes that leads to a huge societal rupture and total societal transformation. power structures cannot be upended with "incentives". we've tried that, and all it's gotten us is this lousy elon musk.


I expect there will be massive social upheaval within the next 50 years if the current trajectory of widening inequality continues which will will dismantle entities like Amazon or transform them. 2020 provided a glimpse of what that might look like --this seems inevitable to me. And while I agree Elon Musk is a piece of shit, as far as incentives are concerned, ESGs and government incentives are already forcing him to do things he doesn't want to --this is why he had to stop accepting bitcoin payments on new teslas lol.

Anyways I don't really have a horse in this race, I just hope the future is Solarpunk & not Cyberpunk and I don't care how we get there.
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Postby Gutslab » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:15 pm

I thought in one of those numerous 'best places to move to avoid climate change' threads, the general consensus was that no one area was immune, it was just what type of disaster you were comfortable with facing
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Postby guy forget » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:20 pm

I mean the GOP were “responsible for the National Forests” but also the fuckin Dawes act so i dunno if that gives me much hope
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Postby light rail coyote » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:36 pm

102 degrees and now wildfire smoke that's supposed to get worse overnight
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Postby guy forget » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:38 pm

Yeah this absolutely sucks
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Postby light rail coyote » Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:46 pm

i somehow didn't know about the smoke so i left my windows open this morning to keep my apartment from getting too stagnated while i was at work

absolute dumbass move
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Postby Merciel » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:14 pm

Gutslab wrote:I thought in one of those numerous 'best places to move to avoid climate change' threads, the general consensus was that no one area was immune, it was just what type of disaster you were comfortable with facing


No one area is immune but a lot of areas are going to become outright unlivable.

For most people it's probably a good idea to start looking to move sooner rather than later.

If you're Jeff Bezos, whatever, doesn't matter, you can do whatever you want. If you're 75 and have no kids (that you give a shit about), or they've already moved, then whatever, go ahead and stay in Phoenix, it doesn't matter (although you still might want to sell your house while it's worth anything, if you're concerned about passing down assets).

But for the rest of us ordinary mortals who might have to be around longer than 10-15 years, you probably don't actually want to be buying a home in one of the places that we know is guaranteed to get fucked. It's probably a good idea to try and move to a safer location now, when it's comparatively cheaper to do so, there aren't any real barriers to doing so (whereas I very much expect there will be barriers to migration down the road), and you can build up your professional networks, your kids' childhood memories, etc. in the new place.

It's not really a great portent for the future that so many people are still actively doing the opposite of that. I realize the reasons why they're doing it (cheap housing being first and foremost, as American developers still tend to build horizontal rather than vertical), but it's still a bad sign.
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Postby Merciel » Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:28 pm

Phoenix, which routinely wins #1 for Least Sustainable City in America, was literally the fastest-growing city in the U.S., and is now its fifth-biggest city: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/12/us/p ... -city.html

Some of that is condos and rowhomes, but much more of it is straight-up sprawl. More roads, more cars, more commute time. More distance for water pipes to stretch through the desert. More demand on A/C to survive the heat, more quick-evaporating pools.

It's insane. But it's also an offshoot of where the lack of any decent housing policy encouraging affordable homes in better-positioned areas, and unrestricted boosterism for places we know are unsustainable, gets us.
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Postby garbiel » Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:44 pm

great lakes gang
New Improved Alaska wrote:shut the fuck up
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