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Postby brent » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:02 pm

figaro wrote:HK is a no brainer for $15 imo

I hate complaining about its length, because its an insane value of a game for $15, but I still think it could have greatly benefited from being like 15-20% shorter. I love the exploration and getting lost and stuff but some of the later areas get a little bit too meandering.

I agree with this as well and for some reason I compare it to hyper light drifter (because I bought it at the same time roughly I guess?) which to me is truly perfect and my fav indie I've played...and the length of that one is ideal
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:06 pm

im excited for the dumb celeste gauntlet stuff later on. im only 8 hours in rn but i feel like i could play a whole bunch. otoh hyper light drifter took me 9 hours and it extremely overstayed its welcome with me
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Postby traced out » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:16 pm

internetfriend wrote:not to knock on botw too much, but it feels like an OSHA-approved open world. it’s fun to explore, i think it makes climbing impressively fun, it’s nice to poke around, the world feels big, im always a huge sucker for looking back at a trip from a tall place and being able to pick out the path i took to get there, but there’s no real emotional sense of distance or weight or alienation. it never feels like you’re out of your element, really—with the slight exception of the first labyrinth i did and the desert cave ruins thing, every shrine and cliff and beast felt like it belonged to no one or it belonged to me. and i think there’s value to that heartwarming olive garden charm, but it’s a way flatter emotional experience to me

sameness and a watered down experience is the 3d open world experience though, and i thought the game did a fantastic job of distinguishing the non-stable, npc occupied areas. the game probably was too imbalanced in giving you tools to make you stronger without game changing world dangers, but honestly i almost exclusively play relaxing single player games instead of stressful ones so i was ok with it
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:22 pm

traced out wrote:sameness and a watered down experience is the 3d open world experience though

i don't think it necessarily is (The Witcher 3 does much, much better at filling every corner of itself with all sorts of meaningful, varied shit), but even if it were ubiquitous to the genre, that wouldn't make it a better time for me

traced out wrote:and i thought the game did a fantastic job of distinguishing the non-stable, npc occupied areas. the game probably was too imbalanced in giving you tools to make you stronger without game changing world dangers, but honestly i almost exclusively play relaxing single player games instead of stressful ones so i was ok with it

see i didn't really think the non-stable non-npc-occupied areas were whatsoever distinguished from one another with the exception of the lost woods. everything else was just an endless morass of korok seeds and bokoblins sitting underneath giant boulders waiting to be pushed onto them. i played the game about 9 months ago and i'm really hard-pressed to remember anything i did in that world. i remember a cool snowball-puzzle entrance to a shrine and climbing around on some rocks near the desert
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:31 pm

traced out wrote:the game probably was too imbalanced in giving you tools to make you stronger without game changing world dangers


i love both games, but this was my only real main issue with MGSV. like you have so many cool ways to approach a situation in both games, but the SITUATIONS don't really seem to ramp up at the same rate
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:32 pm

Rainbow Battle Kid wrote:
traced out wrote:the game probably was too imbalanced in giving you tools to make you stronger without game changing world dangers


i love both games, but this was my only real main issue with MGSV. like you have so many cool ways to approach a situation in both games, but the SITUATIONS don't really seem to ramp up at the same rate

yeah big time. i've tried to get back into it a couple times but i always bounce off it about this

i don't even think i like hard stealth games, they're too stressful for me, so i don't know what i'd even want
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Postby sevenarts » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:12 pm

internetfriend wrote:im not just saying this because i’m playing it right now: hollow knight, in spite of being a 2D platformer, is giving me exactly the same feeling of adventure and exploration excitement that i never got from botw, but always was hoping for. 7a touched on some of the reasons for that. it really makes me feel a first-order urge to push onward, see more, find more, but also really conveys a feeling of danger and strangeness and weight—i’m constantly conscious of how far i am from home, how deep into uncharted territory i am and how exposed that feels. it’s less tied to mechanics than just “boy the corpse run would be long”, it’s something intangible and constant. and when i do die in unmapped areas, i have such a sense of the space i covered and unsurety i pushed into over the course of that run, and of the weight of the task of getting back to my body. or, when i blast through a shortcut i wasn’t expecting, the triumph and happiness is immediate

there are things about it being 2D that don’t work well with that exploration, but i’ve been really surprised at how well it does work. seeing the map itself does so much to communicate how much space you’ve carved up and how much tonnage of stone and ruins and forest you’re under. being surprised by a shortcut benefits a LOT from how improbable it seems that a shortcut could really be surprising in a 2D platformer, but i’ve run into a couple that have made me laugh out loud. it’s incredible


This sums up what I love most about HK really well. I think the way its map system works is really ingenious and contributes a lot to how good the exploration is - the uncertainty when you look at the map and the little dude's face is just floating in a sea of black so far from the closest point of reference, the stress of entering a scary new area and wondering how far in the mapmaker is, and then how satisfying it is to get this incomplete scrap of map and see the tunnels leading off and then get to fill in those missing areas just by exploring them. And it also does this very Soulsy thing maybe even better than Souls itself: the feeling of getting through a scary area, finally finding a bench to rest at and sitting down in relief - and then realizing that really you've actually now just trapped yourself here and would have to go back through all that shit to get back to familiar territory, or else you'll just have to push forward even more in hopes of finding a fast travel point.

I was also thinking like you about how amazing it is that I can see the whole map and still be delighted by the connections between areas but it happens a lot. I actually laughed out loud when I found this one shortcut involving wading through water underneath an overhang of ground and coming up in one of the early game areas - realizing that if I just thought to try it or knew it was there I could have gone from a starting area to some very late game stage was pretty surprising.

All this and the combat is simple but fun, and the bosses so far have been (for me at least) a really good balance of challenging enough that I'll often think "this is impossible" about 2-3 tries before I finally beat them.
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Postby thrasher » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:52 pm

Esteban wrote:Everyone should get katamari reroll so they port we love katamari next

I was playing the demo and maybe it's just me but I found the controls really unintuitive on the joycons, I feel like the game requires the dual shock's parallel sticks or it's impossible for me to move in a straight line lol
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Postby Kuboaa » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:22 pm

whoever said BOTW's battle system was shit was right, I dunno how many times I have been killed from behind while focused on strafing around another enemy, feel like they could at least put a controller vibrate warning when you are being snuck up on while locked on to an enemy
it would also be great if 85% of the weapons I find weren't two handed monstrous swords that make it seem like Link is swinging a small tree at the enemy

otherwise it's pretty enjoyable so far
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:55 pm

oh man stumbling into broken vessel was a fun fight

i know people talk about the combat being simple, but it's really doing it for me. i'm surprised they didn't make 'parrying' do like extra damage though—it's kind of a neat tricky maneuver, it's weird that the payoff for it is so low. maybe it's because it rewards panic slashing too frequently? iunno. i wonder if they tried doing anything special with it. was also thinking it could work well with an 'active reload' mechanic that lets you put your next slash out in no time at all after parrying, but make the timing so precise that you specifically couldn't do it by slamming the attack button. i dunno! i dunno
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:00 pm

now my shade is stuck in the watcher knight room who seem like the biggest difficulty bump in the game so far

i really meant to upgrade my nail before fighting another boss, i just stumbled in here

i know i could rancid egg but im so close to the nailsmith and so far from the egg person

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Postby sevenarts » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:03 pm

I do love BOTW an awful lot considering that when I really think about it, it has terrible combat, a lack of real dungeons, bland and repetitive quest structures, and not a very satisfying reward system around exploration. It says a lot about how good its world and the joy of movement in that world are that it's still a great game.
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Postby sevenarts » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Just kill the shade then quit back to the main menu - you'll be back at the bench. It's kinda odd to me that they made that happen instead of just having an in-game homeward bone equivalent.

That boss was definitely a huge difficulty spike and had me stuck for a good bit.
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:09 pm

i tempted the shade out. whew

and yeah i always forget about the quit out thing. that is very weird to me too
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Postby ashtrayheart » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:14 pm

traced out wrote:the only difference between breath of the wild and other zelda games is there is a mile in between dungeon rooms, breaking the thematic consistency of dungeon puzzles.

well other than the physics engine and freedom of movement, which is insane. the design is almost exactly the same though.

nah, this is wrong. the only other zelda game that is all that similar to botw is the first one.
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Postby ashtrayheart » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:15 pm

also, HK is fuckin great, one of the best purchases ive ever made. i never did the pantheons or anything, but i loved the grimm troupe dlc. i stopped playing after i beat nightmare grimm and realizing that was more or less the final boss. what a fuckin beast.

i'd call HK an all timer, for sure.
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Postby internetfriend » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:24 pm

man the sounds that every single thing is making in the dark part of the ancient waterways is really no good for me

ill stop livetweeting but man this game is good
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Postby Ersaph » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:32 pm

BOTW has so much going for it but the world is a little too empty for my liking. It's beautiful and all but after awhile conquering mountains feels monotinous.
And I feel like this year is really about, just the year of realizing stuff.
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Postby feaxfang » Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:31 am

The 90 minute HK speed run is insane.
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Postby shirts optional » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:58 pm

what are some tips to survive better in darkest dungeon
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Postby Chyet » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:07 pm

not very far into BOTW but i'm mostly playing it to ride a horse
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Postby internetfriend » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:07 pm

what do you think is scrambling you up most of the time? i think getting the hang of darkest dungeon combat has a lot to do with learning when you have to heal, when it’s more effective to just sprint for a win faster, when you have to stress heal, what mobs you need to focus more, what ranks are in danger against which mobs, so i think there are a lotta different little things to be adjusting as you get the hang of it

i think the classic darkest dungeon combat is like, kill the enemies back line marker or stress damage jerk turn 1, then either their scary physical damage person in rank 2 or their scary stress person debuffer in rank 3, then kick back mop up their tanky guy
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Postby shankly » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:33 pm

thrasher wrote:
Esteban wrote:Everyone should get katamari reroll so they port we love katamari next

I was playing the demo and maybe it's just me but I found the controls really unintuitive on the joycons, I feel like the game requires the dual shock's parallel sticks or it's impossible for me to move in a straight line lol


I love katamari, but the controls are really starting to show their age. It just feels so clunky, and the joycons make it even worse. It’s better on the pro controller but overall it’s still more frustrating than I remembered it being. Not really sure what could be done to make it better, but the sticks and camera are pretty janky in 2019.
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Postby Kenny » Sat Jan 12, 2019 4:52 pm

I bought it and fuck tha controls hate, it's not like it's a hard game. It's still fun as hell
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Postby traced out » Sat Jan 12, 2019 5:07 pm

ashtrayheart wrote:
traced out wrote:the only difference between breath of the wild and other zelda games is there is a mile in between dungeon rooms, breaking the thematic consistency of dungeon puzzles.

well other than the physics engine and freedom of movement, which is insane. the design is almost exactly the same though.

nah, this is wrong. the only other zelda game that is all that similar to botw is the first one.

i mean other than dropping you in the world with no context so you have to explore, the actual game plays less like zelda 1 than any other zelda (obviously, because so much has been added to the series that botw still uses)
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Postby sunrise » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:13 pm

rain world is the best videogame on the nintendo switch
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Postby Esteban » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:20 pm

I loved getting to the end game with hollow knight, wasn't interested in getting 100%. While I think there's some good level design in there I can't get over how abysmal doing quests all over the map are. Not enough fast travel points & they're in inconvenient locations half the time. That seems like... Less than good design. Poor foresight at the least.
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Postby internetfriend » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:42 pm

i was feeling kind of pre-burned out at the prospect of that at first but honestly it only ever takes like 5 minutes to get anywhere. especially now that i got it through my head that quit/restart is a hearthstone, when i'm bouncing around the world for quests i just keep my bench at dirtmouth or a stag station so i can always instantly be back to a fast travel point. the map is way smaller than it looks, especially with shortcuts—i think getting around the explored area took longest when i was only bopping around city of tears/fungal zone, it's only gotten faster since then

i don't agree that it's bad design, i think that the degree to which they balance meaningful space, clever interconnected world, and amenities modern gamesters expect (like fast travel) is pretty staggering. it's a TALL order. my biggest complaint is that some of the shortcuts feel redundant with other shortcuts, but i assume they're accommodating different zone/ability sequences

ran into hornet fight 2 and the colosseum today. only did the first colosseum fight. fun fun fights thoughToggle Spoiler

i saw that there are achievements for like doing it on permadeath mode and beating the game in 5 hours. i've never really done shit like that in games but this seems like it'd be a fun one to learn it on. if those wind up being the last few achievements i have left i might...become that dork
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Postby Kenny » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:50 am

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Postby shirts optional » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:02 am

wow haven't thought about Stunt Race FX in years
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