mystery meat wrote:def from above wrote:you dont think we should separate ourselves from (even unwitting) anti-semitism in all contexts?
i mean, there is Israel as the fucked up country and govt that we know it to actually be. and there is Israel as anti-semites falsely present it (global puppetmaster shit) to stoke anti-semitic hatred and conspiracy-mongering and evil (and insofar as leftism can and does overlap with antisemitism, there is a lot of in-between here). the latter characterization should be incinerated. i don't think that all unqualified expressions of anger towards Israel should be assumed the latter until proven the former, and i think there's ways of acknowledging the frightening extent to which anti-semites have shaped discourse about Israel and proactively dissociating from and formulating stratagems for combating it, while also being able to maintain spaces where Israel can be talked about as Bad from the implicit standpoint of anti-racism/human rights/leftism and not have to continuously be asterisking that perspective as 'not anti-semitic' in a way that inadvertently perpetuates anti-semitism as even being a 'side' or a 'position' when it should have zero currency whatsoever in the marketplace of ideas.
mystery meat wrote:def from above wrote: there is Israel as anti-semites falsely present it (global puppetmaster shit) to stoke anti-semitic hatred and conspiracy-mongering and evil (and insofar as leftism can and does overlap with antisemitism, there is a lot of in-between here). the latter characterization should be incinerated. i don't think that all unqualified expressions of anger towards Israel should be assumed the latter until proven the former
mystery meat wrote:no not at all, i'm talking about how Israel as a geopolitical entity (i.e. thread title/topic) is largely depicted from an anti-semitic pov (the same pov that junebug explicitly made note of last page ("homogeneous evil")), not that such a depiction/characterization is the full extent of anti-semitism, which obviously operates far more subtly, prodigiously, complexly than just elders of zion
mystery meat wrote:i'm just bad at articulating thoughts itt
mystery meat wrote:and i think it's a necessary point that hipinion isn't so cohesive and same-page that we can all comfortably assume all blanket rage at Israel is coming from the same morally pure leftism without even the suggestion of (or adjacency to) anti-semitism (because along a lot of other axes it's clear there are still a lot of reactionary and problematic perspectives on this board)
def from above wrote:just like when criticism of Israel's 'fucked up govt' smuggles in unintended(?) tropes or language that is itself antisemitic and encourages suspicion of the very existence of sovereign jewish society in that part of the world.
Totally wrote:TALK ABOUT A DIVISION OF JOY...
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