VERY HIP OPINIONS: #thetwofriends #hellofennel

'Cause I've been postin' and laughin' so long
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FINAL

DEMME
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64%
MILLER
20
36%
 
Total votes : 56

Postby RIXX » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:27 pm

virtuous wrote:
davideotape wrote:I think its very tricky for 3 goofy white guys to do a series on directors who speak from a black experience

yes but there are a lot of people that could help them out with this from a guest standpoint

Right, like having the Black Men Can't Jump guys on, the Las Culturistas for Brokeback, etc
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Postby davideotape » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:58 pm

yeah and there are probably even more elegant ways to navigate it, im just sure it takes more work and careful planning. sounds like they did plan on singleton next. looking forward to that.

agree mostly with todd and swamp angel, im just mostly sincerely confused by the framing of some of the fact checks that do indeed seem to be addressed within the show. like some of it wasnt “them getting their facts wrong” at all. i think? at least the way its listed in those notes.

i hope griffin doesnt bring back any fake woke apology ad-reads. that felt pretty cringey too. i wonder if hes ok
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Postby Feech La Manna » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:06 pm

ero guro vidal (aka todd) wrote:these two talking out their ass in a way that suggests a woman filmmaker didn't experience - or experienced in less of a degree than she actually did - sexism and strife in a super shitty industry is sorta being written off as "well, this lady is really chomping at the bit to get at them." The blank check thing aside, some of those factual errors make it seem as if she had an easier time than she did which is misleading. But beyond that, yeah, I think her tweet about them immediately being like "I'm in love with her" and that being a prevailing and reoccurring talking point in "criticism" about women is cringe AF.

Like, sure, their getting some facts wrong isn't an issue necessarily. It's getting key facts that alter the narrative and erase struggle that sucks, especially when they're paying lip service to, and discussing misogyny in the industry and how it affected her career. You can't just say "they're just two comedy guys doing goofs" when you also start in on some frank discussing of a stunted career arc due to sexist barriers.

I don't agree with the "okay the pasta joke is in bad taste but this lady has an axe to grind" is a good faith look at what she's writing. And yeah, some of the factual errors are pedantic or whatever but it's just part of a larger fact-check doc where some of them are p rough. No one's doing this for their tim burton series or their pixar series because it doesn't have the same cultural import or social relevance. they're left alone to do their goofs.


People are saying she has an axe to grind because she was saying she had an axe to grind before the series aired. It's okay to think she's right on some stuff and being a pedantic, snobby jerk about some other stuff imo. Or don't! People having targeted vendettas against podcasts is just so exhausting at this point.
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Postby Feech La Manna » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:34 pm

I guess the other thing is that it didn't seem to me like they massively misrepresented May's early career? Not once during listening to that did I think "wow she had it easier than I would have thought!"
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Postby davideotape » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:59 pm

They do kinda breeze over her being married as a 16yo and what kind of time that was for her. Shes right that the Wikipedia just says they got divorced 12 years later but.. it sounds like it was rougher than that. Even at that part i was like ‘oh, 16? Wow gross what happened” and david was onto “well it looks like it lasted 12 years, i dunno?”. And the theater note. But yeah stuff like pronouncing names and a few other anecdotes like which person specifically encouraged nichols and may to do broadway just seemed to be a flex. Some interesting stuff though.
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Postby avenue » Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:53 pm

Looking at twitter and reddit (a terrible idea), it seems very telling that these kinda handwaving reactions to this criticism of the "these are just bad faith arguments" / "just trying to sell copies of a book" / "this is just jealousy" / 'and especially ""well she should be nicer about it" kind would never come from this audience with, for instance, a BIPOC subject matter and writer (and rightfully so), yet they seem to be aiming them at a woman without a second thought.
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Postby davideotape » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:57 am

something i would have loved is a bit more connecting the dots of how white men directors especially of that era famously got what they wanted in the end, and she didnt, and less about how it was because she just “didt play the game” like nichols did. i admit that section was where i stopped and just kinda thought ehhh i dont think these three guys can really tell this story without a feminist perspective. theyre self-aware and thoughtful usually, but also still 3 dudes and its coming across pretty clearly right now.
maybe they do get into that in the next 40 mins and im also not being fair.
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Postby davideotape » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:25 am

i will say im having a hard time imagining this specific scenario being replicated though— what i mean is someone with a history of getting into twitter back/forths aggressively laying out a list of things a podcast “got wrong” thats a healthy mix of:

- stuff they didnt get wrong at all? there are a couple of these, but the very first one is very confusing.

- stuff that have seemingly very little relevance *except* to expose their lack of preparation: like how to pronounce stanley donnan, how long she was married to him, was it arthur penn or andrew cohen who encouraged nichols and may to do broadway, if it was drama or comedy theater may went to chicago for originally, mathau ad-libbing a scene in a new leaf, etc.

- very important context and callouts about the more dismissive stuff like why she went to theater, more accurate context around her getting director positions and her struggles.

i can see people scanning that list and thinking “yes, that third bullet really sucks— whats going on with those first two though?” to varying degrees of being a twitter/reddit asshole about it.
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Postby the real ashley olsen » Tue Apr 06, 2021 6:02 pm

coming in to defend griffin, i am pro the "pasta dinner" bit.
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Postby deadbass » Tue Apr 06, 2021 7:11 pm

we can always count on you for your dogshit takes, the real ashley olsen
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Postby wakeman » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:53 am

ICYMI The Heartbreak Kid is all on YouTube


Pls don't cancel me but 70s Cybil is such a smokeshow :oops:
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:33 pm

man i find this sort of discourse stuff so stressful that i have actually put off listening to the episode. wish i could just eternal-sunshine-style delete this whole thing from my brain, and just have whatever feelings i have about hte ep.

like i don't want it to be so bad it makes me upset and stressed, but then also will feel weird if it DOESNT really bother me, but certainly wont be able to not think of it

this is definitely more about my weird neuroses than anything about the pod or the criticisms or whatever. just conflict bothers me a lot i guess
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Postby Ted Pikul » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:46 pm

I’ve felt the same way because blank check is closely wrapped up with my happiness and has gotten me through a lot the past 5 years, it’s though to process
loaf angel wrote:I love how Ted makes every thread as a testament to how fucking boring he is.

"I bought a new garden hose mk 2"
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:49 pm

Yeah I was going through a major depressive episode later 2015/early 2016 and those days these 3 dorks were literally my only friends :/

Been listening to Insert Credit instead to postpone BC and now TIM Rogers just left that?! Cant escape drama :(
Much Honoured Lord Nefarious wrote:rainbow battle kid you can kindly get the FUCK out of this thread while the adults have actual STAR WARS discussions.
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Postby davideotape » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:37 pm

i still love the show and these dudes!! nobody's perfect, nobody’s canceled, its fine to talk about stuff! and still enjoy things while acknowledging blind spots.
but i do think people not noticing stuff is exactly why it probably ultimately needed another voice.
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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:11 pm

20 minutes into Heartbreak Kid and holy shit it’s excruciating, in an artful, good way of course, but good lord
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Postby davideotape » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:18 pm

yeah it really doesnt flinch at all its so good
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Postby wakeman » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:10 pm

There’s gotta be earlier examples of each but THK is definitely a foundational work in both cringe comedy and manic pixie dream girls.

Grodin’s a masterclass in shamelessness
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Postby Feech La Manna » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:46 pm

The scene where he tells the parents he’s married is incredible
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Postby Feech La Manna » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:28 am



badhat wrote:bike solve all problems
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