VERY HIP OPINIONS: #thetwofriends #hellofennel

'Cause I've been postin' and laughin' so long
That even my momma thinks that my mind is gone

FINAL

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Total votes : 56

Postby guy forget » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:52 pm

This shit is exhausting
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Postby guy forget » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:54 pm

David is bein very gracious about all this fwiw
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Postby Feech La Manna » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:01 pm

guy forget wrote:This shit is exhausting


podcast discourse, baby
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Postby Ill-Advised Webinar » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:02 pm

this was posted before the episode aired, so i can't see how this is going to get any better as this miniseries progresses

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Postby Feech La Manna » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:04 pm

"I'm glad people are talking more about Elaine May's work" (citation needed)
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Postby mondrary » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:04 pm

yeah for the past little bit i've been thinking "film twitter" fucking sucks and this is just so exhausting and depressing to me. might need to DEACTIVATE TWITTER!!!! which i should have done a long time ago and probably will not do after i make this post.
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Postby guy forget » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:06 pm

mondrary wrote:yeah for the past little bit i've been thinking "film twitter" fucking sucks and this is just so exhausting and depressing to me. might need to DEACTIVATE TWITTER!!!! which i should have done a long time ago and probably will not do after i make this post.


woah same
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Postby Ted Pikul » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:07 pm

Feech La Manna wrote:
guy forget wrote:This shit is exhausting


podcast discourse, baby


yeah I hate this
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Postby Feech La Manna » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:17 pm



¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Postby guy forget » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:18 pm

the way i see it...

it completely sucks to be an expert in something and to find that a popular show/podcast/whatever is doing a shoddy job in talking about whatever the thing or person in question might be. add to this the layers of sexism and the way white guys generally still dominate film discourse (seemingly, blank check is really my one window into that world) and i can see where courogen is coming from: "if you're going to do a topic like this do it right, and it's frustrating to watch people, especially two white men with a big audience, NOT do it right when i know the facts" is her point as i understand it. plus yeah, basically leading the episode with the stupid pasta dinner BS is bad end of story, and is a bit that should have been left way behind.

but a lot of this attack seems to be in bad faith and not really engaging with the premise of the show, which has always just been: a couple of people BSing over movies and how they get made and what makes filmmakers tick. it's never been rigorous, the lack of rigor is sorta baked into the concept of the show, and so what courogen ends up saying is "i wish this podcast were something else or maybe didn't cover this filmmaker at all" which...i dunno what you do with that. especially when courogen misidentifies what "blank check" itself means in the show's premise and her former (?) podcast cohost is just attacking them for being popular and i dunno, it just all seems like it's coming from a bad place. i get that you want people to cover your field accurately, that's a totally understandable response to me, but her criticism seems to be more broad than that and not really fair or coming from a place of wanting to BE fair. and blank check is a weird target for a sort of broad attack like this, but i guess that is what happens when you are a pretty big podcast.

alright i think i've thought about this enough for the day.
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Postby pzadvance » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:18 pm

Lol she posted the “fact check” list the next day
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Postby guy forget » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:19 pm

Feech La Manna wrote:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯


then today she QT'd that same interaction as a means of attacking the show. it all just sucks.
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Postby guy forget » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:19 pm

nothing gold can stay etc etc
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Postby Feech La Manna » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:23 pm

pzadvance wrote:Lol she posted the “fact check” list the next day


Looking back at the thread it seems like maybe she is saying just his reply should have been a DM. Again, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

She definitely has some valid points and as we've all acknowledge the pasta dinner thing stinks, but it's hard to get past the "lol, wikipedia" snobbery and pedantry in some of the fact checking about a podcast that has never exactly claimed to be an academic exercise
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Postby guy forget » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:25 pm

i haven't listened to the episode but that "fact check" list is also pretty thin. one of her points isn't even a correction, just a broader explanation of why an actor was acting a certain way (which is cool and interesting!), and another is just...griffin (I assume) pronounced a guy's last name wrong?

plus like



makes this whole endeavor feel even more like someone who is looking to start a fight on twitter. which again sucks because buried in here is some real criticism.
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Postby Poptone » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:27 pm

THE PEDANTIC SPEAK!
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Postby Poptone » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:29 pm

(In reference to shit like “She was actually the FOURTH not THIRD director admitted to blah blah blah.”)
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Postby Ted Pikul » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:30 pm

Always a good sign when an "Esq." has entered the conversation
loaf angel wrote:I love how Ted makes every thread as a testament to how fucking boring he is.

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Postby Althea » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:31 pm

People arguing on Twitter over a movie podcast is a refreshingly low stakes thing to be thinking about right now tbh
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Postby Jeremy » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:40 pm

What is the false mythology they're accused of perpetuating? I don't really know anything about how May is "popularly viewed" or whatever except the stuff about Ishtar.
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Postby Poptone » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:45 pm

Yeah as a primarily genre movie buff I have no real clear picture of who she is/her work outside of knowing that Ishtar—quality aside—was a monumental flop but I’m excited for a reason to watch her films and I imagine this series will put a lot of other eyeballs on her films for the first time
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Postby whatabout tim » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:53 pm

guy forget wrote:gettin a bad feeling about the future of the pod these days


Same
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Postby whatabout tim » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:56 pm

Ted Pikul wrote:Always a good sign when an "Esq." has entered the conversation


People who self identify as an Esquire are the biggest herbs.
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Postby unscrambled » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:12 pm

People who self identify as #thetwofriends are #thetwofriends
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Postby deadbass » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:01 pm

1) the pasta dinner stuff has always been gross
2) they get factual stuff wrong all the time in every series and I don’t really understand caring about that
3) glad Ang doesn’t have to deal with this shit
4) Twitter is very bad
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Postby davideotape » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:11 pm

wow.

i just read the fact-check, grifin definitely walks through the very first fact that was checked, right? did he add that after this or did i misunderstand the fact thats being checked?

anyway, im halfway through this episode, the pasta dinner thing sucks— at some point it was an attempt at a “wholesome enjoy your company” type thing which was probably not perfect but the way it was delivered here felt worse. that and jfc in a series about elaine may they really try to talk about anyone else, 2-3 mike nichols anecdotes and a charles grodin nod before getting to a point feels kind of weird. to go into this with zero women representation as a very first episode feels like a pretty big misstep. like they spent more time making sure all the episodes fell in april then considering they might want to be sensitive

im a big may fan and a fan of the era and im enjoying the episode so far, but i get it.
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Postby Ted Pikul » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:15 pm

The first episode is always without any guests, though. I think the only exception was gina prince-blythewood
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Postby Rainbow Battle Kid » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:26 pm

I get that people have some legit critiques but given what we know of griffin’s disposition I really hope all this exhausting (seemingly bad-faith at times) discourse doesn’t somehow end up leading him to quit the show
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Postby jewels » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:39 pm

Guy’s long post was good.

I’ve been checked out lately, what is the pasta bit?
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Postby davideotape » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:54 pm

back when he talked about daisy ridley, someone he had a crush on, i think he said he just wanted to take her to a pasta dinner, it was supposed to be cute and like a cartoony depiction of a childish crush, and it was a mildly recurring bit. in this one he says 60s Elaine May was “just begging for a pasta dinner” which is... poorly phrased, to put it generously. i heard it and grimaced before even reading any of this.

and yeah guys breakdown is good.
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