VERY HIP OPINIONS: #thetwofriends #hellofennel

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Total votes : 56

Postby WAC » Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:56 pm

Ted Pikul wrote:The first episode is always without any guests, though. I think the only exception was gina prince-blythewood


Musker and Clements, Brooks, Meyers, Ephron, and Zemeckis all hads guests too FWIW
He said ALOT of shit last night. And most of it WASN'T how he supported a fascist.
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Postby avenue » Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:28 am

i feel like the criticism is largely reasonable and valid.
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Postby davideotape » Mon Apr 05, 2021 7:53 am

i think they just need to recalibrate a bit and recognize they have more blind spots than they thought on stuff, and just being self-aware and knowing isnt really cutting it

i do wonder if theyre scrubbing through their next few episodes for any casual sexism now
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Postby Ill-Advised Webinar » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:09 am

davideotape wrote:i do wonder if theyre scrubbing through their next few episodes for any casual sexism now


yeah probably not a bad idea
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Postby Executive Producer » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:10 am

they should stick to blank check directors like Gore Verbinski
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Postby RIXX » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:18 am

unscrambled wrote:lol sry i luv checking the reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/blankies/comments/mjz68o/a_request_to_retire_pasta_dinner/

It’s not about the timeline, I’m just saying that it was literally about Griffin wanting to go on a date with Daisy Ridley, originally, and I’ve only ever really heard it in that context any time it’s been used in the podcast, so I genuinely don’t think Griffin intended it in the “I want to fuck X” sense. In that Force Awakens episode, he was literally saying “if you’re listening, I’d like to go out for a pasta dinner” (and the later joke was that Griffin got a regular role on the Tick so could upgrade the invitation to a steak dinner).

There’s also a weird metatextual layer to all of this too which relates to the fact that a Griffin Newman type dating a Daisy Ridley type is entirely within the realm of possibility. I think perhaps that makes it feel more literal than euphemistic.


(most comments are in support of retiring it, this 'literal' interpretation made me laugh)

From griff

Yeah, for what ever it’s worth the bit for me has always been talking about literal pasta dinners with the language of more erotic things rather than using “pasta dinner” as euphemistic coding. But it’s pretty clear at this point that it’s stretched too far and just become kind of abstractly gross. Not hanging it from the rafters, just dumping it straight into the storage closet
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Postby Ted Pikul » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:40 am

WAC wrote:
Ted Pikul wrote:The first episode is always without any guests, though. I think the only exception was gina prince-blythewood


Musker and Clements, Brooks, Meyers, Ephron, and Zemeckis all hads guests too FWIW


speaking of fact checks!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Postby lordofdiapers » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:30 am

The irony here of course is that you can tell these guys are hyper conscious about representation and go out of their way to stretch their premise in order to include directors that would otherwise do not fit the bill.
Last edited by lordofdiapers on Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby lordofdiapers » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:31 am

My favorite part of this saga is this authors former podcast partner claiming that their podcast was always factual and thus they should be the ones earning 40K a month on patreon.
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Postby davideotape » Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:30 am

lordofdiapers wrote:The irony here of course is that you can tell these guys are hyper conscious about representation and go out of their way to stretch their premise in order to include directors that would otherwise do not fit the bill.


i wouldnt say theyre *hyper*-conscious but yeah they do want to try to use their platform to spotlight great underrepresented directors and the title itself “blank check” kinda boxes them into making that sound pretty dismissive when it comes to those directors specifically. its a weird problem.

their awareness of all of this is also another reason this feels like an unforced error. like maybe because May had mostly comedies and came from an improv background they felt a bit looser and more familiar and let their consciousness down but its weird to make a point to spotlight underrepresented directors and then do a bunch of unconscious/conscious casual sexisms for a kickoff of a woman director.

this does seem like pretty twitter-specific energy, but it doesnt mean its all invalid criticism.
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Postby odilon redon » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:39 am

that twitter person does have some valid points but it's also pretty clear to me at least that she's not engaging in good faith at all
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Postby swamp angel » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:46 am

what constitutes "good faith" in this situation? if i were writing a book on a niche topic and stumbled across a podcast that covered the same topic, does a shitty job, and makes way more than the typical advance for a nonfiction book each month, i'd probably be pissed too. she has no obligation to be nice to them and nothing she has said is wrong; let the woman pick fights on twitter if she wants.
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Postby odilon redon » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:57 am

this doesn't seem very "good faith" to me

https://ibb.co/vxx62g9
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Postby odilon redon » Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:58 am

but yeah obviously i have no problem with her voicing her opinion on twitter
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Postby Ted Pikul » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:00 pm

I mean she deleted some tweets where she personally attacked G&D and was also tweeting about them before the episode even dropped
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Postby davideotape » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:10 pm

not sure if its bad faith per se, but things i saw:

- her very first fact she checked was indeed clearly laid out maybe an hour into the show, the framing of “fact check” is not entirely reliable.
- someone found her tweet from a week or two ago eagerly prepping for this... discourse, so there was probably some confirmation-bias and expectations going into it
- she attacked davids day-job directly
- she attacked how much the patreon makes
- after all of this, she wanted any replies directly from griffin or david to be DMs and not public for reasons unclear.

it all felt very online, but jeez these guys really didnt do themselves any favors throughout the episode. hopefully this is a good enough reason for a quick self-assessment
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Postby odilon redon » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:19 pm

the pasta dinner thing has always been iffy at best and i'm glad it seems its been discontinued but this is exactly as petty and dumb as most twitter discourse and i hope the guys pay it as much mind
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Postby odilon redon » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:20 pm

everyones cracking up i swear lol we need that context connoisseur buoy
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Postby high bias » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:20 pm

lordofdiapers wrote:The irony here of course is that you can tell these guys are hyper conscious about representation and go out of their way to stretch their premise in order to include directors that would otherwise do not fit the bill.


they've covered one black director in 6 years. zero latinx
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Postby lordofdiapers » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:29 pm

Okay yeah that's not great
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Postby virtuous » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:30 pm

if they want to continue covering long careers of commercially successful directors, it's gonna be mostly a parade of white guys.

they should drop the format. it's very rare that they have something insightful to say about a long career anyway. the value is in being earnestly excited about movies and dropping the format has more upside than downside.

the whole "blank check" thing had pretty well run its course after m. night and the wachowskis anyway.
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Postby virtuous » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:35 pm

they definitely should have done spike lee or singleton or someone by now though.
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Postby davideotape » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:55 pm

I think its very tricky for 3 goofy white guys to do a series on directors who speak from a black experience
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Postby reversemigraine » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:02 pm

Re: pasta, the TC-14 shit was always crude after the initial joke, and while it isn't anything that really continued on into the Blank Check era, it's always had a second life as some kind of Blankie fanbase shibboleth, based on the number of times variations of "finest b**** in the game!" have been Tweeted out or posted on forums and whatnot.
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Postby reversemigraine » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:23 pm

I wish their production schedule and release calendar was more flexible to allow for opportunities to adjust on the fly and consider discussions and guests that don't fit the mold, and this (along with the recent bracket nonsense) hopefully persuades them to reflect on whether this level of churn is really necessary.

Like, you can say that the Patreon feed is the place where they can experiment, but even on there they've already falled into the rut of rolling out content that's been in the can for months.
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Postby whatabout tim » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:28 pm

whatabout tim wrote:
Ted Pikul wrote:Always a good sign when an "Esq." has entered the conversation


People who self identify as an Esquire are the biggest herbs.


Just now realized I have an Esq. on my personal email signature that I never see. (Blank)check and mate.

I think the criticism is justified and I trust that the two friends will actually reflect and be a force for change, especially given their popularity.
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Postby virtuous » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:40 pm

davideotape wrote:I think its very tricky for 3 goofy white guys to do a series on directors who speak from a black experience

yes but there are a lot of people that could help them out with this from a guest standpoint
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Postby unbiaseddairylodge » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:55 pm

virtuous wrote:they definitely should have done spike lee or singleton or someone by now though.


fwiw i think singleton's the mini-series between may and carpenter
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Postby ero guro vidal (aka todd) » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:53 pm

these two talking out their ass with false facts that (unintentionally) downplay or reduce the amount of sexism and strife she experienced in a super shitty industry is sorta being written off as "well, this lady is really chomping at the bit to get at them." The loose blank check premise thing aside, some of those factual errors make it seem as if she had an easier time than she did which is misleading. But beyond that, yeah, I think her tweet about them immediately being like "I'm in love with her" and that being a prevailing and reoccurring talking point in "criticism" about women is cringe AF.

Like, sure, their getting some facts wrong isn't an issue necessarily. It's getting key facts that alter the narrative and erase struggle that sucks, especially when they're paying lip service to, and discussing misogyny in the industry and how it affected her career. You can't just say "they're just two comedy guys doing goofs" when they also start in on some frank discussions of a stunted career arc due to sexist barriers.

I don't agree with the "okay the pasta joke is in bad taste but this lady has an axe to grind" is a good faith look at what she's writing. And yeah, some of the factual errors are pedantic or whatever but it's just part of a larger fact-check doc where some of them are p rough. No one's doing this for their tim burton series or their pixar series because it doesn't have the same cultural import or social relevance. they're left alone to do their goofs.
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Postby RIXX » Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:25 pm

Their patreon really takes in $40k a month? Man...i need to become a Creator..
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