HPN WEREWOLF #2: (WEREWOLVES WIN!)

There are worse ways to spend the time, but not many.

Postby fox » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:13 pm

feral wrote:I would think fox and alice didn't pass anything along, right?


I certainly didn't respond to the PM.

Guys, this is a game of subterfuge. There's no reason that a diseased villager couldn't have done the same thing.
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Postby feral » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:13 pm

I mean, Luke didn't forbid it, so it wasn't cheating.

I think he should explicitly state some rules regarding communication with dead players next time.
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Postby feral » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:14 pm

Oh, sorry, "revealed" not "killed". That's clearly fine.
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Postby mcphee » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:15 pm

yeah that's the one thing. Dead players basically should agree to be barred from communicating with players still in the game (and stay out of the fucking thread).
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Postby internetfriend » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:16 pm

junebug wrote:
stakeout wrote:As soon as fox and Alice were revealed I messaged them to tell their wolf buds to turn me


this is borderline cheating.

yeah I feel confused about this. wasn't the Cursed win condition (before being turned) to win as a villager?
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Postby surly » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:16 pm

never!
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Postby mcphee » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:16 pm

gambra and I debated it because it felt like such a ploy. But we had just been halved so we felt desperate.
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Postby internetfriend » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:17 pm

I mean it's not a big deal either way, it's just weird gameplay. same w like fuckles and separator
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Postby Kaputt » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:17 pm

I was working under the assumption that the cursed wanted to be human until they were cursed, rather than vying to be cursed. But then I guess you could just tell the cursed at the point that they are murdered by the wolves.
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Postby feral » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:17 pm

Really need separator to come explain himself.
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Postby feral » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:18 pm

Kaputt wrote:I was working under the assumption that the cursed wanted to be human until they were cursed, rather than vying to be cursed. But then I guess you could just tell the cursed at the point that they are murdered by the wolves.


Yeah, a Cursed who knows they're cursed will clearly play differently than a Cursed who doesn't know they're cursed.

Maybe split it up next time, Luke? One Cursed with knowledge and one without?
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Postby surly » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:21 pm

internetstrange wrote:
junebug wrote:
stakeout wrote:As soon as fox and Alice were revealed I messaged them to tell their wolf buds to turn me


this is borderline cheating.

yeah I feel confused about this. wasn't the Cursed win condition (before being turned) to win as a villager?

i think it's a gray area, but i say it should be allowed for two reasons:

One, the cursed becomes a much more pragmatic player. they play a little closer to the vest, knowing they might be turned at any moment anyway, and if things go south for either side they can take a bigger stand.
Two, barring it takes away the diseased's play at subterfuge where he tricks the wolves into killing him in order to save a full villager/seer/etc.
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Postby internetfriend » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:22 pm

feral wrote:
Kaputt wrote:I was working under the assumption that the cursed wanted to be human until they were cursed, rather than vying to be cursed. But then I guess you could just tell the cursed at the point that they are murdered by the wolves.


Yeah, a Cursed who knows they're cursed will clearly play differently than a Cursed who doesn't know they're cursed.

Maybe split it up next time, Luke? One Cursed with knowledge and one without?

well it'd be bad to have two instances of the same role with different rulesets, but maybe that role should be kept from its holder so people play in line with their win conditions
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Postby Luke » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:22 pm

So two questions for later games:

First, the basic rule I imagine for pms is that I ask the minion to remain secret, and that dead players will avoid spoiling the game by using in game info. I don't like keeping them from the thread, cause I think it's kinda funny to have spooky ghosts catcalling, but what I'm getting is a total dead player ban (within reason, if you were just killed, you can certainly gripe about it in the thread) is preferred?

Second, for timing, I did plurality votes for lynching, and I added the majority rule to speed it up. I really didn't like how that turned out with the Ampersand/separator vote, where it was a tight race, then one vote at the right time decided it. I want to keep some variant of objective metric in order to speed the game along when it's obvious, but I don't want to preempt debate by shutting votes down. Should I keep the majority rule? Change it to 3/4 or 2/3 vote? Get rid of it altogether?
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Postby Luke » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:24 pm

And yeah, if stakeout asked me about messaging fox and alice, I'd probably say he shouldn't.
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Postby lordofdiapers » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:27 pm

Yeah dude I love you but I'm not sure "kill everyone" is gonna cut it next time
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Postby sevenarts » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:27 pm

Guy Incognito wrote:i'm sad you guys axed me so early but this was very fun to watch from afar


Yea, this. Cool game, hopefully next time I get to be more than the Drew-Barrymore-in-Scream role.
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Postby mcphee » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:28 pm

would it be possible to have different voting rules for different stages? It seems like in the later game, anything but a majority win would really tie the villagers hands and give the wolves the benefit of days with no lynching. I don't know. I'm probably wrong.

I liked the dead players in the thread, to be honest, but there were a couple instances where it was a little annoying (and we were super worried that fox's snarky response to feral had sunk any chance we had of casting doubt on him).
Last edited by mcphee on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby internetfriend » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:28 pm

Luke wrote:So two questions for later games:

First, the basic rule I imagine for pms is that I ask the minion to remain secret, and that dead players will avoid spoiling the game by using in game info. I don't like keeping them from the thread, cause I think it's kinda funny to have spooky ghosts catcalling, but what I'm getting is a total dead player ban (within reason, if you were just killed, you can certainly gripe about it in the thread) is preferred?

Second, for timing, I did plurality votes for lynching, and I added the majority rule to speed it up. I really didn't like how that turned out with the Ampersand/separator vote, where it was a tight race, then one vote at the right time decided it. I want to keep some variant of objective metric in order to speed the game along when it's obvious, but I don't want to preempt debate by shutting votes down. Should I keep the majority rule? Change it to 3/4 or 2/3 vote? Get rid of it altogether?

on the first point, yeah I think a totally dead player ban would be a good idea

on the second point, I think having the vote close at the same time every day would be a good idea. you'd need more kill roles or fewer players for the game to not take forever, but the majority rule is a huge handicap to the good specials, whose strategy frequently revolves around timely reveals. I vote to get rid of it altogether
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Postby Luke » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:30 pm

stakeout wrote:badasses don't ask for permission. i wanted to win and it was clear that i wasn't going to be on the side of victory if i stayed with you bunch of absolute morons.


Don't get me wrong, I like the fire in your belly.
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Postby internetfriend » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:30 pm

I actually feel really really strongly about the second point because people have jobs and lives and could just miss entire "days" of this by not logging on in a certain 2-hour span (or whatever)
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Postby bunejug » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:31 pm

stakeout wrote:badasses don't ask for permission. i wanted to win and it was clear that i wasn't going to be on the side of victory if i stayed with you bunch of absolute morons.


some of us have a bit more tact... you're giving us cursed a bad name.
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Postby feral » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:32 pm

internetstrange wrote:I actually feel really really strongly about the second point because people have jobs and lives and could just miss entire "days" of this by not logging on in a certain 2-hour span (or whatever)


Yeah, this is my reason for wanting to get rid of the majority, 2/3, 3/4 mechanic.

I could have had much better mental health the past few days if I didn't have to constantly monitor the thread.

I also enjoyed this morning watching the Capital/junebug vote unfold really quickly toward the deadline.
Last edited by feral on Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby fox » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:33 pm

I almost want to write a web app to help with werewolf management, but it would be a bear to code. Imagine something that let you log in and post your vote whenever you wanted, and that auto-generated something like the spreadsheet that we created. Anonymous voting could be permitted, etc., etc.
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Postby internetfriend » Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:45 pm

surly and pablito were the only people I was totally convinced were good from like d2 and I probably would've PMed them if I'd survived another day
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Postby feral » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:02 pm

I only passionately thought surly was a werewolf. He was the only one I mistakenly led a charge against.
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Postby feral » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:04 pm

Why you gotta be mean to me when I said you were the MVP, stakeout? :(

Why's everyone gotta be mean to me?
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Postby fox » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:07 pm

.
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Postby surly » Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:17 pm

stakeout wrote:also the surly thing started when i pm'd him "do you trust me?????' and his response was "sure why not"

yeah but i'm not gonna let the guy i suspect of being a wolf know that i don't trust him
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Postby Alice » Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:47 pm

Fox and I def passed on the stakeout PMs to gambra and mcphee before we were declared dead. I told them it seemed like he was not bluffing and did want to be turned. I didn't definitively respond to stakeout about his proposal tho other than to say I had received it. It was ultimately up to them to do what was best for their game moving forward.

I guess keeping the wolf spreadsheet up-to-date while the remaining Wolves had access to its data was a bit of a grey area as far as bending game rules goes. I did it for their benefit and to satisfy my own need to compile all the data into a visual reference. I love visual references like that. I did PM with Snatch about the Tanner role too to see what his deal was, but he'd already been executing his sabotage plan by then.
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