Hereditary, Midsommar (7/3)

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:25 pm

Mesh wrote:
I'd read that gossip. It's pretty striking how far from any discourse Greenaway is, maybe mostly because he's not distributed, anthologized or canonized at all by outlets like Criterion. Why is that?

there is a lot of writing about greenaway in academic film studies :shrugs:
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:27 pm

anyway i loved this. lots to chew on.

the common criticism seems to be a perceived disconnect between the first and second halves in the movie, but i think that just reflects a lack of imaginative reasoning/decoding on the part of the viewer, imho
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:28 pm

one of the best movies about anthropology
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:32 pm

but yeah, it felt good to watch something worthwhile at the multiplex this year!
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:34 pm

and fuck, you have to see it at least twice, huh
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Postby spix et chicho » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:42 pm

I thought this was so fucking tedious. would have been better if we had a slow pan up to the room where the children are watching Austin Powers and then we watch them watch Austin Powers for the entire duration of Austin Powers, with some discordant sousaphone on top or some shit.
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:47 pm

you have no emotions
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Postby spix et chicho » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:53 pm

that's a mean thing to say to someone over a movie.
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Postby landspeedrecord » Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:54 pm

walt whitman wrote:anyway i loved this. lots to chew on.

the common criticism seems to be a perceived disconnect between the first and second halves in the movie, but i think that just reflects a lack of imaginative reasoning/decoding on the part of the viewer, imho

my stance on this take is that while I as a viewer was fully behind dani as the person I was emotionally invested in from the start, the second half displaces her in favor of a much more widescreen view which sort of left me cold

it's what prevented the film from taking that next step for me

interested to watch it again now that plot isn't a factor
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:08 pm

that's interesting you say the second half "displaces" dani; to me, the entire world, the cosmos, reorganizes itself around her then

the pageantry and theater, the gorgeous wide angle views that clearly depicted her proper place IN the world- it all felt to me like emotional articulations (and resolutions) of what was left lingering for her, unarticulated and festering like an open wound, from the first half
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:10 pm

Beautiful Jugdish wrote:i really don't think they dovetailed the family plot with the boyfriend plot well at all

i would say that these do map and mesh together, and they have an inverse symmetry with the occult-theatrical dynamics in second half
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Postby landspeedrecord » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:14 pm

walt whitman wrote:that's interesting you say the second half "displaces" dani; to me, the entire world, the cosmos, reorganizes itself around her then

the pageantry and theater, the gorgeous wide angle views that clearly depicted her proper place IN the world- it all felt to me like emotional articulations (and resolutions) of what was left lingering for her, unarticulated and festering like an open wound, from the first half

I agree that's true when thinking about it in reflection, but in the moment everything after the first drug trip expanded the scope (for me)

it went from close-up to widescreen, and the form didn't quite keep me focused on dani emotionally
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Postby landspeedrecord » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:14 pm

I wish I could watch films with a pure soul
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Postby John Dark » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:24 pm

walt whitman wrote:one of the best movies about anthropology


If you reduce anthropology to the number of times characters say "My thesis!" maybe.
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Postby Thrustin Jeroux » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:27 pm

the anthropologists are upset
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Postby landspeedrecord » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:27 pm

the entire film focuses on how a group of westerners view/react to foreign rituals that are depicted without judgment
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Postby John Dark » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:34 pm

landspeedrecord wrote:the entire film focuses on how a group of westerners view/react to foreign rituals that are depicted without judgment


The premise was rich anthropology material. The characters' attempts at performing anthropology on the other hand were dumb and inaccurate.

Plenty of silliness too. I mean, a character literally got Serpent and the Rainbow'ed.Toggle Spoiler
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Postby John Dark » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:37 pm

unnecessary toop
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Postby Buddy Glass » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:16 pm

Cannibal Holocaust & Cannibal Ferox both did the unwitting anthropologists thing way better, and those aren't particularly good movies
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Postby spix et chicho » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:26 pm

yeah I mean i'm not saying this was a ~bad movie~ I just went in feeling suspicious of it and it did not really convince me over its 2.5 hour runtime. it is 100% dressed up conventional horror movie, replete with flimsy stock characters and moral comeuppance. the shitty boyfriend thing is so half-assed. who even are these people, who cares what happens to them? they're a series of empty vessels for the audience to fill in with assumptions (casting Chidi from the Good Place does a lot of heavy lifting for the Josh character if you're familiar with him) which is fine when you don't try to present your really quite plain horror film as something particularly intellectual. what if horror, but slower and with symmetrical One Perfect Shots? a24... thank you
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Postby spix et chicho » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:28 pm

there were things I liked about it though don't get me wrong. the greenaway influence makes sense.
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Postby Buddy Glass » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:38 pm

At some point in the past 5 or so years it's like everyone decided that symmetrical framings and slow push-ins are just what a great director does. Lift the shadows up a bit in the grade, even better, wow so cinematic so many feels. The shots look great when freeze-framed or excerpted as gifs, but my experience of watching Midsommar was that it didn't feel connected to the material or the moment-to-moment narrative beats or even atmosphere a lot of the time. There's no cinematic or formal coherence to it, it's just become the default house style that signifies something is 'elevated' or 'art' or whatever. When in doubt, center that shit and bust out the slider/dolly/gimbal/steadicam.

I suppose Aster likes Greenaway, who also loves his long tracking shots, but the difference is Greenaway is a genuine formalist who has thought his approach through in terms of his subjects, his engagement with the history of visual art, and so on. Aster isn't untalented, but the degree to which everyone seems to be grading on a curve these days is just maddening.
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Postby landspeedrecord » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:47 pm

100%
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Postby Celiac » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:55 pm

Good posts
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:11 pm

whats wrong with the shots? it's not like american indie filmmaking was some bastion of radical visual style five years ago lol.

the focus on cinematography also overlooks the real source of style in the film: the costumes, the runes and other cultish objects, the pastel color palette of the rooms and ceremonial spaces, the drawings and embroidery, THE FLOWERS etc. you're missing the forest for the trees here
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Postby walt whitman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:21 pm

spix et chicho wrote:it is 100% dressed up conventional horror movie, replete with flimsy stock characters and moral comeuppance. the shitty boyfriend thing is so half-assed. who even are these people, who cares what happens to them?

gotta disagree with this.

the early scenes with dani and bf were razor sharp, capturing their relationship's slow-motion decline with micro-moments of emotional disconnect, awkward silence, resentment, willful blindness to another's feelings (and one's own).

even with "flimsy stock characters and moral comeuppance," horror captures the nuances of emotional experience better than most serious movies, i think
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Postby landspeedrecord » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:37 pm

I'm so stuck in between the two poles of positive and negative reception for this film (my feelings were p solidly in the middle), but it's been an interesting film to think about, which is more than I can say about most things these days

the films I've thought about most this year have been high life, midsommar, and under the silver lake
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Postby john plainman 2 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:42 pm

I wish I had screenshots of the boyfriends ambient male aggression throughout the movie. he looks so pissed off whenever he's sitting at the dinner table, or on the edge of his bed, etc.it was great
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Postby Sweet Gregory Pectin » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:40 pm

spix et chicho wrote:the shitty boyfriend thing is so half-assed. who even are these people, who cares what happens to them? they're a series of empty vessels


i hate supposed to be bad

BUT!

the movie is from dani's perspective not from the men in the movie they are non descript and disposable to help explain why dani eventually sides with cult it's like showing the beginning of the wizard of oz in black and white

they are giving her nothing only pelle shows any interest in her but even then it's only to take advantage of her as he's trying to sacrifice all his friends
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Postby Sweet Gregory Pectin » Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:53 pm

i thought the movie was okay when i saw it but whenever anyone tries to explain why they didn't like it just makes me like it more somehow

am i fucked up ain't i a stinker
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