More like Notre Damnnnnn

Health insurance rip off lying FDA big bankers buying
Fake computer crashes dining
Cloning while they're multiplying
Fashion shoots with Beck and Hanson
Courtney Love, and Marilyn Manson
You're all fakes
Run to your mansions
Come around
We'll kick your ass in

Postby deadbass » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:52 pm

I think the love of really really big rooms is universal.
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Postby chowder julius » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:11 pm

to jb's point

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Postby cartola » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:17 pm

bigcat wrote:when i saw it on fire i was happy. no ill wishes toward the ND, it just felt right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Postby virile » Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:51 pm

argent wrote:The idea that no one really cares about anything and that they are just trying to gain some kind of weird status through the performance of caring is a deeply pernicious notion that we should not succumb to. It feels like the root of so much of what is wrong in contemporary society.


this thread is pulling me a lot of different ways but to this point i wonder if we've almost brought the performance of caring onto ourselves. like if you look back at that list someone posted earlier of all the landmark dates and stuff of notre dame the only date you see celebrating the anniversary or whatever is year 850 in 2012. we live in a weird time where every day someone is like hey buddy holly died 43 years ago today! or it's shakespeares 419th birthday! it's like.. there's no 500th anniversary noted there or it's not like they couldn't wait for a neat number like 1000 it's just.. now we'll celebrate everything and 850 is round enough to not bother waiting for 900 or 1000. we live in this weird time of just overcelebrating everything because there's a google doodle or whatever.

i sure hope that makes sense i'm a dummy. submit!
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Postby alaska » Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:55 pm

bunejug wrote:
alaska wrote:man the tone i feel i need to strike to respond to this event is very strange


this expectation of solemnity is sort of what I'm getting at. how is that sadness constructed without prompting, but only for specific losses? why do people feel like these treasures are a global heritage when this globalized, open-access mentality is fictitious for most (migrants, refugees)? not just responding to reactions in this thread, but the general discourse around historic monuments and art. it'd be nice if that desire for cross-cultural learning was reflected in economic and social systems, but the very nature of these sites and artifacts being presented as a universal human commons depends on an extractive industry rooted in economic and social exclusion.

we should be critical of how the media portrays these events, this isn't a virtue-signaling woke twitter take. macron has been tear gassing his own citizens who are protesting for economic justice, yet instead most press outlets will cover his vow to reconstruct the cathedral. this plan will most likely be funded partially by former french colonies whose citizens probably will not ever see notre dame let alone be able to step on european soil. I'm happy that it's structurally sound and that much of the art was saved, but I still think it's worthwhile deconstructing the symbolic politics and the material violence that preserve these sites and that prompt such strong reactions when these sites are threatened/destroyed.


yes ftr i agree completely and am glad you elaborated. here's my boring personal non-response, which i have already deleted and put back once and will probably delete again soon:

i'm earnestly not trying to give "takes" here and i'm not really trying to respond to the "discourse," either. by "tone i need to strike" i didn't mean that i felt obliged to be solemn in the face of something i didn't care about -- i just meant that i think this is a locus for paradoxes that cannot be resolved by any individual

because while i have no personal or emotional connection to notre dame and have never even fucking left the united states, i do believe that a thing of beauty is a joy forever, but i also believe that white settler colonial capitalism is a truly unprecedented world-historical nightmare, and that every instance of its glory drips with blood. if i could choose between one life and the existence of notre dame i would burn the cathedral down any day of the week. but of course that's not the choice i, or any of us, have, because there's no way to go back and undo what has been done

all i'm saying is that i walk past beautiful colonial houses on my way to work and sometimes i find them lovely and sometimes i'm so overwhelmed by the fact that everything i interact with on a daily basis is on stolen land that i have to keep my head down, and that on an entirely personal level i regard the Monumental as an fraught and interesting locus for a lot of these questions. i know that any vision i have of some kind of global free exchange of culture emerges from my position as a purportedly sovereign citizen of a neoliberal empire, but the fiction that someday what i find beautiful will be allowed to be found (or ignored!) by anyone, and that i will someday be able to learn from the beautiful present in every single culture in the world, to the extent and in the way they give permission -- this is a stupid fiction, but an orienting one for me

everything anyone loves should be saved. this is a ridiculous thing to say because so much is predicated on unfathomable pain, and i know that some people's interests are directly antithetical to my continued existence, but it's a feeling i experience. i cannot resolve the paradoxes and conflicts of this position by myself because they are paradoxes and conflicts in the world, and in terms of actual real life conflict i am deeply devoted to the ideals of anti-imperialism and the destruction of economic and racial subjugation wherever they exist. but yeah.

anyway i don't know anything. this isn't anything other than what i said about being sad about everything but i'm sad about everything for real and i have no idea what's going on. every major western press organ should be expropriated and twitter should be illegal. bless you all
Last edited by alaska on Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby alaska » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:00 pm

here's a good article about how insanely fucked up the western desire to collate an encyclopedia of World Knowledge has, historically, been

http://amodern.net/article/unesco-brouillette/

In this light, the initial moment I describe above, the moment of the Collection of Representative Works (CRW), should be read in relation to the anticipated collapse of Europe’s formal empires. The CRW quite openly supported the privileged role of experts from the developed nations in directing the course of world history. It imagined an incorporative canon in which the world’s various literatures are absorbed into English and French, and the development of this global canon of master works was far from irrelevant to the development of the world’s economic and political resources. Rather, the elite intercultural community it would serve would have it as an inducement and accompaniment to its evolution toward a higher state of consciousness and sympathetic community. Knowledge of the classic writings of all peoples would evince the imperial trustee’s respectful interest in the underdeveloped regions that were to become the target of programs to improve “living standards,” safeguard the developed world’s acquisitive position in relation to the world’s cultural wealth, give people in the West some enlivening exposure to the non-decadent and pre-capitalist holism that were expected to be found in the “lesser known” literatures, and preserve what may disappear with the inevitable and welcome further development of what Huxley deemed “white capitalist expansion.” [8]
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Postby David Lobster Wallets » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:00 pm

what's really frustrating for me about this tragedy is how it perfectly exemplifies our culture's flawed characteristic of reacting to events rather than anticipating and preventing events. Like, every. single. damn. time.
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Postby mercenaries of slime » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:02 pm

beautiful post, alaska

don't delete
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Postby furrowed brow » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:15 pm

argent wrote:The idea that no one really cares about anything and that they are just trying to gain some kind of weird status through the performance of caring is a deeply pernicious notion that we should not succumb to. It feels like the root of so much of what is wrong in contemporary society.


Yeah, this is exhausting.
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Postby furrowed brow » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:18 pm

Although, in general, I think we're moving beyond that kind of cynicism, culturally.
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Postby furrowed brow » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:21 pm



Seems reasonable to me.
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Postby scramble » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:36 pm

virile wrote:
argent wrote:The idea that no one really cares about anything and that they are just trying to gain some kind of weird status through the performance of caring is a deeply pernicious notion that we should not succumb to. It feels like the root of so much of what is wrong in contemporary society.


this thread is pulling me a lot of different ways but to this point i wonder if we've almost brought the performance of caring onto ourselves. like if you look back at that list someone posted earlier of all the landmark dates and stuff of notre dame the only date you see celebrating the anniversary or whatever is year 850 in 2012. we live in a weird time where every day someone is like hey buddy holly died 43 years ago today! or it's shakespeares 419th birthday! it's like.. there's no 500th anniversary noted there or it's not like they couldn't wait for a neat number like 1000 it's just.. now we'll celebrate everything and 850 is round enough to not bother waiting for 900 or 1000. we live in this weird time of just overcelebrating everything because there's a google doodle or whatever.

i sure hope that makes sense i'm a dummy. submit!


no. that list was made in our era and means nothing.

when this building was erected most people’s lives revolved around only two things: survival and religious observance

in fact the two were not really separate and collective celebration (and other rituals) occurred almost daily

ours is a time of extremely infrequent public celebration, historically speaking
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Postby Cronos » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:18 pm

scramble wrote:
virile wrote:
argent wrote:The idea that no one really cares about anything and that they are just trying to gain some kind of weird status through the performance of caring is a deeply pernicious notion that we should not succumb to. It feels like the root of so much of what is wrong in contemporary society.


this thread is pulling me a lot of different ways but to this point i wonder if we've almost brought the performance of caring onto ourselves. like if you look back at that list someone posted earlier of all the landmark dates and stuff of notre dame the only date you see celebrating the anniversary or whatever is year 850 in 2012. we live in a weird time where every day someone is like hey buddy holly died 43 years ago today! or it's shakespeares 419th birthday! it's like.. there's no 500th anniversary noted there or it's not like they couldn't wait for a neat number like 1000 it's just.. now we'll celebrate everything and 850 is round enough to not bother waiting for 900 or 1000. we live in this weird time of just overcelebrating everything because there's a google doodle or whatever.

i sure hope that makes sense i'm a dummy. submit!


no. that list was made in our era and means nothing.

when this building was erected most people’s lives revolved around only two things: survival and religious observance

in fact the two were not really separate and collective celebration (and other rituals) occurred almost daily

ours is a time of extremely infrequent public celebration, historically speaking


Hard disagree

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Postby galactagogue » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:40 pm

chowder julius wrote:to jb's point




yeah the salient criticism for me is fueled by this and the way billionaires are flocking to the disaster relief cause to the tune of at least $300 million when this was a disaster with no human casualties and few material losses other than part of the structure itself–– which we know will always have an expiration date.
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Postby saranclaps » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:31 pm

apropos of nothing but how does a freelance writer have $1k of income to donate here?
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Postby inmate » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:33 pm

je ne sais pas, saranclaps
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Postby Kenny » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:40 am

That blue checkmark means he's rich, iirc
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Postby came to wreck » Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:50 am

i think the writer is dating elon mu$k or something
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Postby loaf angel » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:18 am

who has the record for the most thousand dollars and how many do
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Postby alaska » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:41 am

im a freelance writer and i donated one million dollars to the effort to grant unprecedented temporal powers to the pope thereby restoring the prospect of a unified catholic europe united under the banner of a reconstituted holy roman empire
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Postby alaska » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:42 am

galactagogue wrote:
chowder julius wrote:to jb's point




yeah the salient criticism for me is fueled by this and the way billionaires are flocking to the disaster relief cause to the tune of at least $300 million when this was a disaster with no human casualties and few material losses other than part of the structure itself–– which we know will always have an expiration date.


totally. deeply frustrating
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Postby deadbass » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:24 pm

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Postby viachicago » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:31 pm

maybe im an idiot, but dont all of these churches have insurance?
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Postby deadbass » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:38 pm

surprisingly, no (for real)
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Postby pana » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:41 pm

viachicago wrote:maybe im an idiot, but dont all of these churches have insurance?

"define acts of god"

vid from inside notre dame yesterday: https://i.imgur.com/fhQYRY3.gifv
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Postby viachicago » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:51 pm

yea i guess i clearly didnt think this through, since arson wouldnt be covered by insurance anyway
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Postby brittle » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:55 pm

viachicago wrote:maybe im an idiot, but dont all of these churches have insurance?

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Postby galactagogue » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:49 am

thank GOD for this cbd scrunchy
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Postby tgk » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:50 am

i'm telling ya it was all a big plot to boost their shitty reno budget
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Postby FourLegsGood » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:51 am

The Free Market works!
#weirdnight
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